The Camaro Club (UK)

This is all down to the land rover lot that build unsafe cars like the one that killed all them people. It seems more aimed at hotrods and kit cars that are built unsafe.
TBH we tell our MOT tester what our cars should have on them as none of them have the slightest idea of what a Yank has fitted standard, another reason why we can get away with the MOT exhaust law that came in recently. Most of the mods we do like you guys makes the car safer anyway.
Seems like you can fit most things anyway as long as you do it how they want.

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Hi Rocky, don't know if you actually read ALL of the information & links posted, but I'm afraid that this has nothing at all to do with the Land Rover boys. VOSA were aware that a large number of Land Rovers had been illegally modified & they decided to turn up en mass to one of their large shows. They set up camp just down the road from the show & as they were leaving, hauled everyone of them in for a roadside test. The 8 point system was already "in place" for VOSA to use. The same could quite easily happen at a rod run or any other car show for that matter. Did you know that they "allegedly" have a team that monitors web boards & forums??

The 8 point system has been law here for some time now, it just hasn't been heavily enforced as yet, as the technology ie a "catch net system", hasn't been fully implemented in this country. In other EU countries it has been fully implemented, which is why the modified car scene abroad barely exists anywhere near the level it is here. It's the EU countries that have wanted US to fall in line with THEIR vehicle compliance laws.

At the moment you may well be able to "tell our MOT tester what our cars should have on them", but those days are probably numbered. The mods may well make the cars safer, but as has been said below, they don't want ANY form of modifications period!! It may well seem "more aimed at hotrods and kit cars" but the reality is that this will affect ALL cars if & when it becomes enforced.

Dunno about you guys, but I don't want to end up in a scenario, whereby my car could be almost impossible to sell, illegal to use, or even worse not be insured in an accident due to it being illegal.

If people want to take the "it ain't gonna happen" attitude, then that's fine, but I've posted the links etc for you guys to try to understand what is possibly in the pipeline, don't shoot the messenger

cheers...Nige

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Too much power...not enough hands!!

No Nige you have been a great help, better to have a heads up than nothing at all. Like the new exhaust law that just appeared.
they still seem to say you can mod the car for MOT ie fit bigger wheels as long as there is arch clearence etc. I think there was one on another forum that said you can fit larger engine and supercharger.
Would be good to just have a do's and dont's list.

What will you do with yours? Is it changed alot?

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Also I dont know if you know the answer but what happens if the car came from factory with mods different to a production car but GM built it?

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Hi Rocky, at the moment you can fit bigger wheels & tyres, though that is likely to be changed if the new laws get passed. As to the fitting of a larger engine, yes, as far as I'm aware that's still possible, but you wouldn't be able to do much else as it'd fall foul of the 8 point system. Unfortunately, there isn't a definitive list of do's & dont's, though earlier on in this thread, I did list a lot of things that are done to cars & the replies & possible consequences from ACE were in blue. If you look at the ACE web site, there's a lot of info there to take in, but it gives a very good idea of what's going on.

What am I gonna do with mine?? I'm gonna keep driving it & having fun, with the likelyhood that later in the year, I'll do a few sprints with it & maybe a "run what ya brung" to put a "time" to it, funds & spare time allowing.

Is it changed a lot?? Mmm, that's a good question & the simple answer is no, not really. If you were to look at the car it looks absolutely stock. It has a small block & Muncie trans, original suspension arms, brake calipers & discs, original rear axle & springs, original size wheels & tyres & all original GM steel bodywork. So, it fulfils every criteria required for the 8 point system. The things that have been changed aren't part of the 8 point system.

My very good friend succesfully races a '70 Mustang fastback in historic motorsport & my intention was to also race my Camaro. The rules in the class that he runs in are extremely strict & as such, don't allow any aftermarket performance parts to be used, unless they are period parts that were fitted to the car originally. I don't know if you've watched any of this type of racing, but those cars, although they're old, would give most modern hi po cars a very good run for their money & would gouge the eyeballs out of a lot of them.

I gave him the car as a painted rolling shell & asked him to replicate the race set up that his Mustang has & put all of that technology into my '69. In doing so, I now have a car that, although it uses OEM parts, doesn't perform or handle like an original '69 Camaro. Think of it as a road legal '69 Trans Am car, but probably with a bit more power. You can look at it all day long & you won't find anything different to any other '69 Camaro. It's what you can't see that makes the difference, it's all in the details. This shows that you don't need to spend a fortune on aftermarket stuff to make your car perform extremely well, just a lot of enginuity, not only that but it shouldn't fall foul of the new government laws that might come into being.

cheers...Nige

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Too much power...not enough hands!!

Dear All
Thought I would put my thoughts on this down

Butch is surprisingly standard

Original style suspension and pickup points all major components in original locations, bolted rollcage. All "optimised" GM major components, orginal size wheels and brake discs etc etc
Winding windows , full door trims

The point is that the ICS cars like the Minshaw's 64 Malibu are nothing like as standard and consequently have really nowhere to run (in Europe) but perhaps more importantly are considerably less VALUABLE! I hear of genuine FIA race prepped 65 Shelby Mustangs going for Euros 170k, and yet Dennis Clark's 1995 ICS winning Camaro couldn't sell at £30k (the red and gold one)!

There must be well over £250k invested in that Camaro.

So in my view there is much to be said for "less is more".

So please consider these facts before tubbing the back axle and fitting a Ford 9 Inch- it might be the way ahead for you - but please do not be surprised if the car's value is adversely affected after such mods.
But as a classic car movement we should do what we can to allow people to add 9 inch Ford axles to their Camaros and consequently we need to write to MPs etc (or move to the Isle of Man)!
After all the car belongs to the owner not a Bureaucrat in Brussels- I gather some european car firms are considering banning "chipping" on the basis that the ECU belongs to the manufacturer!
where will it end? ECUs reporting to the authorities personal information about you without your knowledge?

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Kind Regards
TopCat
Secretary
Classic Camaro Club
Member of The Association of American Car Clubs UK
Email :tboles@strathnoon.co.uk Websites: http://www.classiccamaroclubuk.com and:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdhLJtR_ZY4

Yeah ECUs belonging to the manufacturer after you buy the car Crazy, I think its more to do with altering the CO level on newer cars due to the fact they tax the car according to the band.
Wonder if GM mind us altering the ECU?
We are totally modifying a trans am at the moment tubs, axle, wheels, air ride, which I have warned the customer but he doesn't care and will run it anyway.

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That's the biggest problem there seems to be, in that an awful lot of people think it'll never happen to them. Just by fitting the tubs the car is now technically illegal to use on the road. If & when this law is fully enforced, there's gonna be a lot of cheap cars & parts out there.

cheers....Nige

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Too much power...not enough hands!!

It certainly is. It will be very hard to tell as they are even stamped the same as original but we will see.

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Are they DSE tubs?? At least with those they do look original, so might not immediately draw attention to themselves.

cheers...Nige

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Too much power...not enough hands!!