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 Post subject: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:54 am 
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Big Block

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm
Posts:131
Car Details:1971 2nd Gen Camaro
RS, 350ci auto
Location:Devon
I'm going to look at 1979 2nd Gen tomorrow. Have organised a potential straight swap for my 1991 3rd Gen.

Two questions!

1: Should I do it?
2: What should I look out for on the 2nd Gen? Where do they rust / go?

I know 3rd Gens really well, but have always wanted a 1970-71 2nd Gen RS (but can't afford it!). This looks like a good step in the right direction, especially as 2nd Gens will be worth more than 3rd all day long. But my 3rd is a triple option 5.7 z28 and I've spent the last few years doing everything I can think of to her, as a result I wasn't looking to get rid. But, this is a 2nd Gen, that's almost all that matters to me I think! It's apparently rust free, but the body has a number of scrapes and dings (nothing major or rusty). The interior is in need of love (missing rear shelf, missing headliner, warn drivers seat). It's a base Sport Coupe model, but is at least a v8, albeit the 305. One owner in the states, only been in the UK for one year. Suspension and brakes have done (lowered 2"). New Holley carb and inlet. Few shiny bits in the engine bay. Full stainless exhaust, but hangs VERY low. Pontiac GTA alloys. Comes with all the original bits as well.

Views, please? My head is messed up. I'm going to see it tomorrow, with documents so a deal could be done on the spot.....

Cheers

Jon


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Quick 2nd Gen Advice

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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:56 am 
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Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:01 pm
Posts:334
Car Details:1999 Camaro Z28 M6, Dark Blue, Borla catback with custom tips, Z06 front brakes, Hurst shifter, Team Dynamics wheels, Lowered 1", MTI lid, shock tower brace
Location:Shrewsbury, Shropshire
I can only offer a opinion of number 1. NO!

If your 3rd gen is sorted keep it. They are going up in value too. That second gen sounds like it could be a potential money pit.

Whatever you decide at least it will still be a Camaro!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:03 am 
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Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:35 am
Posts:2566
Car Details:79' camaro road & track day toy. 383 stroker, 5 speed TKO trans, lots of suspension stuff, 13" Vette brakes, 18" wheels.
Location:Luton
I'd keep the 3rd gen too, and saying that as a 2nd gen owner...

_________________
“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:27 am 
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Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts:3245
Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
It's hard to say without seeing the 2nd gen but my gut instinct goes with what Z28Dunc says. It will depend on your situation of course and what you want out of it.

Here's my line of thinking... It sounds like you have a nice original 3rd gen. I have a nice original 3rd gen (albeit a Firebird :shifty: ) and it's used as my daily driver. I have a 2nd gen 1979 Camaro which has been in restoration mode for 5.5 years even though it was fully MOT'd and driving when i got it. Once the Camaro is driveable, the 3rd gen will still remain my daily driver. I hope that makes sense ;) But of course, it depends on your situation. What are you using it for? Is it just for fun / a weekend type, go to a local meet type car? Are you looking for a project car / something you can do bits of work on here and there?

Hard to advise without knowing / seeing both cars. Then again... we're already not being 'sensible' by owning these cars, so it's hard to know whether to listen to your heart or head. Then to that i would add, if you're after an early 2nd gen, would it be a bugger if you get tied up in a car that you kind of wanted, then see the one you did want, and then couldn't go for it? Don't know what the answer is to that.

For some more factual stuff... things to look out for:

The usual:
1) check the oil dipstick to see how it's looking
2) open the radiator cap when it's cool to check the level and see what state of the water
3) take a good torch (LED gives a nice brightness in the daytime) and have a look underneath. Check the floors for holes / rust / repairs. Check around the suspension areas for excessive / structural rust. See if the bushings are still intact.
4) Check for steering play
5) Listen for rear diff & bearing noise
6) Listen out for any other unusual noises i.e. the sound of someone ducktaped up in the boot, that's something you ideally want to avoid.

Some more specific 2nd gen bits:
1) Check around the rear window. These are a very common rust spot. Run your fingers around the edge where the chrome / trim runs along the body. Usually it's crusty / bumpy from repairs or current rust. To repair, it's a rear glass out, new metal in, new moudling studs in, paint and reinstall job.
2) Boot (trunk :oops: ) Few things... Open up and pull up the carpet. Check the drivers side where it dips down as this is a common rust spot too. The fuel tank it wedged up on the other side so moisture collects and can rust from bottom up or top down (in case of a leaky weatherstrip).
If it has spoilers, check the area around the bolts on the inside as they can be a rust spot, especially if added aftermarket and drilled and left as bare metal.
Whilst there, see if you can stretch your hands into the wheel well, where the quarter panel joins the wheel well. This is another common rust area and requires removal of quarter panels to fix.
3) A very common spot is the bottom of the b pillar. Where the door handle is, follow it down to the rocker panel and then move towards the rear well, where the bottom of the quarter panel meets the rocker panel. The bottom of the quarter panel at this spot is usually rusted out or in the process of rusting. If you can, ask the owner to unscrew the little vent above the door striker ( one screw) and then you can put your hand down into the join and see if the metal is still good.
4) Cowl area - with the bonnet up, check the area where the fender is attached to the cowel. That area usually rusts.
5) Fenders. Lying on the floor, have a look at the bottom of the fender (closest to the doors) and check out the state of the bottom. These usually rust out, starting around the 2 bolts.
Also check the front part of the fender, look for the bolt that holds a bar that connects to the wheel arch. The bolt on the fender side can cause it to rust.
6) if you can get the rear seats pulled up, check the condition of the floor plan near the rear seatbelt strap (closest to the inner wheel arch).
7) Check the top of the quarter panel where it would join the roof. There's a joint there and it can crack and rust (unibody = this area is under stress).
8) Check for rust around the front windscreen moulding.
9) In the engine bay, check brake master cylinder area for leaks
10) check the upper control arms for rust / bushing condition.
11) open the doors and lay on the floor and see if the bottom edge is intact or rusted out. Then move so that you can see the bottom of the door from the inside of the car (as i you were the rocker panel looking at the door) to see if the overlap seem has rusted out. I have this issue on my 3rd gen. Not looking forward to that repair.
12) Check general condition of rubber weatherseals around door - are the flaking / falling apart etc.

Hope that helps a bit!

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:54 pm 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:13 pm
Posts:205
Car Details:1979 Camaro
In addition to the excellent post above -

Check the rear frame rails, at the front where they drop down in front of the axle, and at the rear where the rear springs mount.

Floor pans - specifically under where your feet would be. Water comes down from the corners and sits on the floor.

Does it have Sub-frame connectors - bars joining the front subframe and the rear frame. This is a good thing, but check condition.

Sills, inner and outer. tap the sills below the door to check for any weak spots or filler (water can collect inside). Under side, check the areas ajacent to the front mount point of the rear springs.

Core Support - the panel infront of the radiator. Look around where the battery sits, and the same area on the opposite side.

Tail panel - back of the car, lowest point, just behind the fuel tank.

Check my project thread for lots of pics of the rust I found, most of it being hidden until I started digging - http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3403973


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:05 pm 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm
Posts:131
Car Details:1971 2nd Gen Camaro
RS, 350ci auto
Location:Devon
Many thanks to you all, helpful as ever :chevy:

To be honest, I like working on them almost as much as driving them. And it's only a weekend car, not a daily driver, but I don't see the point of having a car without driving it so it does come to work on nice days! Last year my 3rd Gen only did 1,500 miles. But, they'll never be 'show' quality cars.

It's had upper & lower control arms replaced with bushes and master cylinder and rear slave cylinders which helps with some of the points of concern. Brand new MOT with no adviseries either which is promising (mind you, my 3rd gen has that as well). New discs, front and rear pads, new shocks & lowered springs, new exhaust, new radiator, new carb / inlet, some new interior trim, new MOT, new plugs / fluids / leads etc. Comes with spare seats and original wheels (got alloys on it now) plus the original carb / smog stuff.

We're meeting tomorrow in Weymouth which is a 100 mile drive for both of us, if he makes it in the 2nd gen that's a good sign surely?!?!?

I'll check all the rust spots (cheers for that), from the pictures he's sent there don't appear to be any obvious bubbles around the window / arches etc. Apparently it was stood in a barn in california since the 90s so should (!!) be fairly solid. He's also sent me more pictures and the interior isn't as bad as I thought (rear shelf cover, carpet and headlining missing and drivers seat worn. Other than that it's not too bad)

If it's rust free I may go with my heart rather than my head, and treat it as another project (like my 3rd gen was) to progress towards (or turn into) the dream.

This is what it looks like:

Image

Wish me luck :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:38 pm 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:13 pm
Posts:205
Car Details:1979 Camaro
Dry stored California car is probably as good as it gets regarding avoiding rust.

Don't trust an MOT, it's only as trusted as the person that tested it. My car passed it's MOT for many years without a mention of issues. Then the tester changed and it failed dramatically. Not sure why the original guy didn't make me aware of the issues that were developing, but I wish he had told me.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:02 pm 
Offline
Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts:3245
Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
That looks pretty tidy! I think you may have a good one there, nice and original and unmolested (aside from the suspension but in a way it's good that's it already been overhauled). Provided the 'common issues' list checks out well against the car, it could be a good swap!

_________________
How to post pics: When writing a message, scroll down and use the "attach file" option. Where possible, a photo sharing service can be used such as Flickr, Imgur etc. The image location (usually ending in .jpg) can be copy and pasted between the ][ brackets that appear when you click the 'Img' button (you can find this button at the top of the message box).

How to post youtube vids: Click on the 'youtubeHD' button at the top of the message box and in the middle of the ][ brackets that just appeared, copy and paste everything from the youtube web address that appears after the = sign i.e if this is the url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cNqaPSHv0 just copy "K2cNqaPSHv0").


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:02 am 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm
Posts:131
Car Details:1971 2nd Gen Camaro
RS, 350ci auto
Location:Devon
Well, I did it!

I am not longer a 3rd gen owner, I'm a second gen owner :chevy: Though I am sorry about the Pontiac wheels on it, I do have the originals as well.

Very happy to be honest, it's not as together as my old one but has SO much more potential. I went over it with a fine tooth comb, and couldn't find ANY rust at all. All the areas mentioned seem completely fine, no bubbling, no holes, nothing. The body is 'honest' meaning it has lots of small dings and scratches but it will get a nice new coat of paint, one day....The rust was my main concern. The only possible mechanical issue may be with the power steering, there is a bit of a noise from the pump near full lock and there seems to be a fair bit of 'goo' under the pump. It's clearly been leaking / weeping for some time. But they're cheep and having parked it for a couple of days there is just one drop of engine oil on the floor underneath, so it's fairly dry.

Doesn't run 100%, but it's not long had the new carb on it so probably needs setting up. Added to which, a 650cfm on a standard (bar headers and filter) 305 is probably a bit of an overkill. I'd imagine it needs down jetting a fair bit....

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Quick 2nd Gen Advice
PostPosted:Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:46 pm 
Offline
Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:01 pm
Posts:334
Car Details:1999 Camaro Z28 M6, Dark Blue, Borla catback with custom tips, Z06 front brakes, Hurst shifter, Team Dynamics wheels, Lowered 1", MTI lid, shock tower brace
Location:Shrewsbury, Shropshire
I actually like the Pontiac wheels :silent:

As long as your happy with it then you've got a good deal. It sounds like its in great shape. Get out in it before the winter sets in! :thumbup:


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