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PostPosted:Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:54 am 
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Big Block
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Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
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Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
Further to the below, i found this info:

"Capacitors are also widely used in oscillator, filter and timing circuits, because their charging rate and discharging rate can be accurately calculated.

In an RC circuit, the value of the time constant (in seconds) is equal to the product of the circuit resistance (in ohms) and the circuit capacitance (in farads), i.e. R × C. It is the time required to charge the capacitor, through the resistor, to 63.2% of full charge; or to discharge it to 36.8% of its initial voltage. These odd looking percentages are derived from the mathematical constant e (2.71828, the base for natural logarithms), specifically 1 − 1/e and 1/e respectively.

Oscillator and timing circuits are commonly used in digital systems to provide frequency generators and timing. Oscillators and filters are typically found in analog circuits, i.e. audio or radio-frequency (RF)."

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/qu ... capacitors

To paraphrase:

"the time constant (in seconds) is equal to the product of the circuit resistance (in ohms) and the circuit capacitance (in farads). It is the time required to charge the capacitor, or to discharge it."


Reading further about capacitors, the black one is an Electrolytic Capacitor and they have a life of 2,000 hours (83 days) at 85c. Double that life for every 10c drop in temp. Say an ave of 15c, that would be a multiplier of 7, so 14,000 hrs / 581 days. Constant use. Say, 2 hours per week, thats only 4 / 5 constant days use per year. Call it 6. Technically, should last a little under 100 yrs. Nice. Apparently though the life span / shelf life of these type of aluminium canned capacitors is about 20-30 years with or without use. Kind of like an AA battery - If you keep them in the pack, after 10 years you won't be able unpackage them and use them in the remote anymore. So i guess the Capacitor has reached it's end of life. Only about 83p from Maplin so i'll stop in there tomorrow and pick up a replacement:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/47f-63v-40-to ... itor-at06g

And solder it in tomorrow evening. Hoping that i don't need to replace the yellow one. It's harder to get to but different material - Polypro Metallized; I believe the .1/5/100 markings are 0.1 uF Tolerance: 5%; Voltage: 100 Hoping that has a longer life. It does read as having a much higher resistance. The black one has a rating of 47uF and has a resistance of 15kOhm, the yellow, lower rated 0.1uF one has a resistance of 1.5mOhms. I believe that the yellow one should have a much lower resistance relative when comparing the two.

http://ex-en.alliedelec.com/search/prod ... #tab=specs

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Re: Rear defogger operation

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PostPosted:Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Big Block

Joined:Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:40 pm
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Location:Roswell New Mexico
The chip looks like a 555, which means you possibly have this

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-an ... hot-timer/

But the diode would indicate the second circuit here

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 2063,d.cGU


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PostPosted:Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Big Block

Joined:Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:40 pm
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Location:Roswell New Mexico
Almost forgot,
A handy calculator

http://555-timer-circuits.uk/operation/delay-on.html


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PostPosted:Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Big Block

Joined:Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts:206
Location:Roswell New Mexico
Brain fart.
It will be the first circuit as the diode is to counter the back EMF when the relay switches off.
Not used to dealing with older circuits using relays :shifty:


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PostPosted:Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Big Block
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Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts:3245
Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
Thanks for having a look into this! You have a good eye picking up on the 555 chip. I remember learning about them in school but can't remember anymore than that lol.

From looking into it, the timing reliance is on the capacitors ability to charge and discharge, which weakens over time (lifespan is said to be 15-20 years). I unsoldered the original 47uF cap and soldered on a new 47uF cap on Friday, haven't had a chance to fit it yet. Will hopefully do so this week / end, will let you know what happens...

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PostPosted:Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:20 am 
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Big Block
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Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
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Well, new capacitor didn't make a difference. wtf. Stays on for less than a minute still :evil: This is what really p*sses me off with stuff - you try and do the right thing and it still makes no difference. There's one capacitor left on the board, so i'll change that out too and see what happens. Other than that i have no clue what it could be. The timing of the circtuit is based on the capacitor charging, it's as simple as that. There's nothing else to it. WTF else could it be. Gonna get a replacement for the 2nd capacitor today. Then spend some time taking apart the bottom of the dash again for the 3rd time. It prrobably won't make any difference. :evil:

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PostPosted:Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Big Block
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Well, i got the 0.1 uF capacitor to replace the second of the 2 caps on the board. It's a bout 4 times as large as the one on there so it won't fit. what a big f*k you. i give up trying.

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PostPosted:Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Big Block
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Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
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I managed to find a capacitor that was smaller, but still not direct replacement. Took the dash apart blah blah did it work? no. no f*ckin no. What's the point in trying. Changed out both capacitors. Tested the 3 relays and they are all well within tolerance. There is nothing else on the board that can be changed. How is that even possible. The info out there clearly says that the circuit timing is based on the capacitors time to charge. Well, how the f*ck is not working then if they are both brand new. The timing is exactly the same as before doing anything. This is incredibly frustrating. It's such an arse to get to and uninstall and reinstall each time. How on earth can it not work. I even tried a second unit i got from Rocky and that's the same. It's supposed to stay on for 10 minutes but doesn't stay on for more than 1 minute. I cannot reverse out of my drive or from work when it's misted up or there's frost because i can't see and having it on for 1 minute does absolutely nothing. I am so pissed off at this stupid thing. It's so frustrating, how can it not work if you change out the components in there that control the timing of it. I'm so frustrated that i can't f**kin fix it it's just a stupid relay :evil: :evil: :evil: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

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