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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Big Block

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm
Posts:131
Car Details:1971 2nd Gen Camaro
RS, 350ci auto
Location:Devon
If anything the idle seems smoother and the engine is definitely quieter (no compressor or squirts of air going into the headers!). I've let her warm up and run for a while, but not actually gone out for a run yet but all seems good to be honest. No warning lights, nice and responsive etc. etc. Recently also taken off the A/C and sorted the throttle bypass better.

I did redo the timing after removing all the gubbins, mainly because the dizzy moved when I was taking the hose out behind it. It's not tightly clamped at the moment as I can't get into the bolt easily, but it may be worth checking yours as this may need adjusting as well.

I'd read about the 100mv as well, from what I understand it's the O2 readings that get thrown out a little but most articles I've read from the states say they've run it this way for years fine. A few have a custom ECU program to compensate which apparently makes it better, but most don't seem to bother. I'm going to try it like this for a while and see, but I don't go many miles over the winter. Ultimately I'm going for an ECU as well, when funds allow.....

I'm like you, aiming for new headers next year as mine is all new exhaust from headers back but someone welded the air pipes into the new system for some reason. Like the idea of the Hedman Headers, but you do need to make a mount for the O2 sensor I believe which means drilling / welding / modification........If you do your headers first let me know how you get on!!!

Other thing I'm aiming on doing soon is relocating the heater valve, it looks bl**dy ugly sitting on top of the rocker cover. Other than some heater hose it should be simple and clean up the engine bay even more now I've got plenty of room where the A/C kit was!


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Re: Air / Smog Removal

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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:00 am
Posts:1158
Car Details:1986 Camaro, bought into Spain by me in 1993.
305 replaced by a 355, 750 Demon carb, RPM AirGap intake, Brodix heads, Hedman Hedders, 3" Flowmaster exhaust.
Wheels are Summit aluminium 5 spokes, tyres are 245 rear 225 front BF Goodrich.
B/M transmission, battery relocated to the rear, GoodMark 4" cowl steel hood.
Location:Spain East Coast
Get a distributor spanner.....

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/w ... /overview/

Image

You get two nut/bolt sizes.

Tip: if you can install a stud for the distributor, makes life easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Big Block

Joined:Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts:206
Location:Roswell New Mexico
Perhaps a quick explanation of the AIR system will help. This is just a general overview and not specific to your engine.
During warm up the air pump sends a stream of air into the intake manifold or catalytic convertor where it helps to burn any excess fuel. During warm up the ECM ignores the O2 sensor and uses a default setting relying solely on the airflow and throttle position sensors.
When the temp sensor says the engine is up to operating temperature the air to the exhaust manifold is shut off and the ECM starts using the O2 sensor to trim the fuel. Air is still injected into the catalytic convertor simply to make it more efficient. Only after 1996 with the introduction of OBDII was there an O2 sensor after the catalytic convertor to check if it was working correctly.
So if you remove the AIR system on a pre-1996 engine and still have the O2 sensor fitted close to it's original location (hotter is better), nothing should change.


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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts:3245
Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
Well, had a crappy day on the car today. Was supposed to get a lot done but didn't and ended up making more work for myself. Put loads of penetrating oil on the bolts of the air tubes that are bolted into the headers. Waiting, added more, waited, added... you get the picture. Got the right size spanner (14mm) and it fit nice and tight, and it started slipping. What was actually happening was the bolt head was deforming. Sure. What a f*cking great thing to happen. Tried a different bolt, same f**king thing. As you can tell, i'm pretty pissed of with it, took 6 HOURS :evil: to sort just one out. And it's not even sorted. I tried everything. Heating it up, more penetrating oil, using tools like a pipe wrench, monkey wrench etc. filed it down (because of course it was chewed by now) to a 13mm, that just rounded it. In the end i welded the bolt head to a long steel bar, but i think too much had been filed down, as it just started to twist apart :tired: I was left with a bolt still in the header and a short bit of pipe sticking out from it. Of course, it's a stainless steel pipe, so unreel the mild steel from the welder, put it stainless wire, adding to the unnecessary fun and time of it all :evil: I weld it up, start the car, it's blowing a bit, so undo the battery again, try and find where to weld, of course it's getting dark now too making it harder to see, let alone with a welding helmet on. redo battery, start car, that's good, find out now the pipe that was cut, going to the other pipes, is blowing. great. undo battery, weld, redo battery, start car, small part where its blowing. Undo battery, weld, start car, not blowing. Finally. 6 F**king hours later and a shit quality job done. Really not happy with it. I bought a set of 8 bungs, got all the tools out, used the penetrating oil etc, expecting to do a decent job and ended up just f*cking it all up. I'm so pissed off, mainly at the fact that the bolts won't come undone but also my inability to do stuff like this. So frustrating. Still 7 to go and this was the easiest one to get too. I have no clue how i'm gonna do the others. There's less space with them. Ironically, the pipes are the in way. That's the reason i'm gettiing rid of them (partly for a touch of weight saving) but mainly for space and access. I had bruises from changing the spark plugs and bad ache as it was so hard to get to them. I need to do the valve stem seals at some point which means i have to get the spark plugs out to get compressed air, to hold the valves up and just generally, those pipes seem to get in the way anytime you need to access something. Oh and here's a fun fact - when i used an angle grinder with a cut off wheel to cut the pipe, i moved it too soon and it was still spinning and took a chunk out of the alternator cable. In two spots. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Are you f*cking kidding me. So that's another f**king job to sort out and money to spend. Great. I've put some electrical tape on it for now, it still starts, charges, lights work etc. but i'm worried about that cable now and how much it's going to affect current / charging etc. It's the main wire that goes out of the back of the alternator and to the positive of the battery. I'm worried that over a period of use, i.e 30 minutes of driving with lights on / fan on or whatever, the cable is gonna heat up / battery won't charge or something, due to the cable not being thick enough anymore. There is something else thick in the car whilst being driven :evil: As you can tell i'm really, really pissed off. I had other stuff to get done, so not only didn't they get done, it also just put me in a foul mood. Plus i have no idea how to sort the other 7 out which is really frustrating. I don't want to cut the end of the pipe off by the header and weld it, for two reasons - first is that some are a bitch to get to and i won't be able to and second is that i don't want bits to be sticking out as the whole point is to clean it up and make access easier. I was supposed to be done in 2 hours - i worked out 15 minutes per pipe to remove the bolt and place the block off bolt in. So plenty of time technically as all you're doing is unbolting something and bolting back in. I gave a bit of extra time for the fact that they may be a bit hard to unbolt - but the fact that they didnt budge, what a f**king joke. The bothered to use stainless steel pipe, but plain steel bolts, probably to save a few quid. Why not just f**king use stainless bolts. Or brass. Yet, on something as important as brake lines, it's rust friendly steel. Yet these air pipes that aren't near the level of moisture as the undercarriage where the fuel and brake lines are, oh ye, let use stainless. I'm so frustrated. So pissed off. I just wanted to do a decent job. I also just wanted to get something done. What the hell can i do?

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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:36 pm 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm
Posts:131
Car Details:1971 2nd Gen Camaro
RS, 350ci auto
Location:Devon
Shit sorry dude, sounds like you've had a pants time.

All I can suggest is what I did. Cover them in penetrating oil, leave for two days. Cover them again, leave for another day. Run the car to heat them up, let them cool down again. More spray. Then try and remove them. Seven of mine came out fairly easily, but it could have simply been luck. The last one had to have the pipe cut off and a socket hammered onto the nut, then it came off OK.

I've also heard it can help to do it up a smidgen first, helps break the seal before you undo it apparently.....They are very soft metal which really doesn't make it any easier...

Would happily give you a hand, but think you're a fair way away from me (Devon / Cornwall border)?

Good luck, I feel beer may be calling for you now. Try it again tomorrow.....

Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:43 pm 
Offline
Big Block

Joined:Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts:206
Location:Roswell New Mexico
Not much help now I'm afraid, but an old trick is to heat the nut up untill its just too hot to touch, this means any air in the gaps between the nut and the bolt/stud has expanded and been forced out. Now spray with the release fluid of your choice, which as the nut cools will be pulled into the gaps left when the air expanded.
Sound weird, but it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Air / Smog Removal
PostPosted:Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:43 pm 
Offline
Big Block
User avatar

Joined:Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts:3245
Car Details:'79 Camaro, 350 V8
Location:South Bucks
Thanks for the help and advice!

I'm a bit more calmed down. Ye, i tried the heat up thing too - i soaked it for a while, still nothing, so added some more, turned the engine on (ran out of propane) and that got them pretty toasty and gave a nice smoke show. Then once the engine was turned off, sprayed some more, still nothing.

I am thinking of asking Santa for a set of these :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VS0343-SEALEY ... 3a81da31fa

The design allows you to get a full 360 grip on the nut - that should help the initial issue of deformation. The more you turn it, the more pressure it puts onto the nut face, apparently it will also grip onto rounded bolts etc. as it's designed to increase pressure as you turn. Plus it has a ratchet action, making it easier to get to the more confined ones. I was looking at a set of flare crows feet too:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-S0845- ... 51a79e2d7d

Whilst a LOT cheaper, i'm sure it would work great on not heavily rusted parts, but as it doesn't give a 360 grip i reckon it may end up slipping and rounding the ones on there. Don't really fancy dropping that much of Santa's cash on a set of tools, but i'm sure they will come in handy for other pipe work i.e on things like the brakes on the 3rd gen, fuel line (need to change the fuel filter at some point) plus any work that needs doing on the Camaro too.

Gonna step back from this for a while and maybe look at it again in Jan.

Glad that you were able to have a much more pleasant experience Jon, cars really are a gamble aren't they... on an even older car, the 79 Camaro i took off the exhaust - all via the original bolts! Usually you see people cutting exhausts off after just a few years, as it's pointless trying to undo the bolts, yet this has never been changed and removed it without any penetrating oil, just a long handled socket wrench and it's an even worse place for collecting moisture.

_________________
How to post pics: When writing a message, scroll down and use the "attach file" option. Where possible, a photo sharing service can be used such as Flickr, Imgur etc. The image location (usually ending in .jpg) can be copy and pasted between the ][ brackets that appear when you click the 'Img' button (you can find this button at the top of the message box).

How to post youtube vids: Click on the 'youtubeHD' button at the top of the message box and in the middle of the ][ brackets that just appeared, copy and paste everything from the youtube web address that appears after the = sign i.e if this is the url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cNqaPSHv0 just copy "K2cNqaPSHv0").


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