The Camaro Club (UK)

I am looking to swap out the 229 v6 in my 1980 2nd gen for a 305 v8. I know you will all say don't bother and go straight to a 350 but I am gonna take this step first so I can get some practice in as I've never done a swap and don't want to screw up a 350 but if all goes well I will run it for a bit and save up for a 350. Here are the questions I have though. Thanks in advanced

1. I'm pretty sure I have the weak old th200 gearbox as I have 3 speed and no overdrive but how can I be sure?

2. If I use the th200 auto until I find a th350 manual will a 305 rip it apart or did 305s use the th200 and will an older engine bolt onto my 1980 box?

3. Will I need to uprate my brakes or did they all come the same? I have a brake servo on mine not just a master cylinder.

4. Will I need to change my radiator or any other cooling system parts or are they all the same size and the thermostats were just rated different?

5. My v6 exhaust manifolds currently 'T' together and a single pipe runs to the back which will all have to go. I want to run straight pipes out the sides under the doors either infront or behind with the v8 but my car is straight piped now and they won't MOT it as its too loud but with short pipes where I want them I wont have room to simply stick a couple silencers on for the MOT. Any ideas? I guess there is a recess under my car in the body for the second pipe for the v8 models should I have to run them all the way.

6. Will I need a fuel pump from a 305 to keep up with the 2 extra cylinders or can I keep my original in?

7. Will the engine mounts and prop shaft length be the same? What about the rear diff?

8. Will my power steering pump and alternator be alright from the 229 v6?

9. What is involved it registering the car with the DVLA? Is it easy enough? Is anyone going to want to look the car over? What about insurance too, would they be likely to kick up a fuss?

10. Is there anything I'm forgetting that will the changing?

Hey dude, sounds like you're getting stuck in Make sure it's not off the road during SpeedFest though!

1. I'm pretty sure I have the weak old th200 gearbox as I have 3 speed and no overdrive but how can I be sure?
There will be some numbers stamped on the auto box. Have a rummage around and report back the numbers and we'll figure out which transmission it is.
2. If I use the th200 auto until I find a th350 manual will a 305 rip it apart or did 305s use the th200 and will an older engine bolt onto my 1980 box?
It shouldn't rip it apart, the th200 should take the power (will check) especially if you don't planning on planting your foot down all the time.
3. Will I need to uprate my brakes or did they all come the same? I have a brake servo on mine not just a master cylinder.
Brakes are the same But do add a master cylinder, or a booster that runs off of the powersteering pump. There's a recent post about that device, saves a lot of room.
4. Will I need to change my radiator or any other cooling system parts or are they all the same size and the thermostats were just rated different?
Um, could be the same rad, but not sure. If you do go up to a 350 then i'm pretty sure it's a bigger rad. My 350 has a big block rad, you can't have enough cooling. Maybe worth finding a 3rd / 4th gen with a V8 in for breaking and nab the rad from it.
5. My v6 exhaust manifolds currently 'T' together and a single pipe runs to the back which will all have to go. I want to run straight pipes out the sides under the doors either infront or behind with the v8 but my car is straight piped now and they won't MOT it as its too loud but with short pipes where I want them I wont have room to simply stick a couple silencers on for the MOT. Any ideas? I guess there is a recess under my car in the body for the second pipe for the v8 models should I have to run them all the way.
For MOT you'll need the exhaust to exit behind the rear axle. The mufflers have a space under the rear seats... check out my build thread and there's a shot there of the underneath where you can see the muffler location. You can also see (which answers your other question) the cut outs i've installed. What i was thinking of doing was running some pipe from the cut out to the rocker panel and oblonging it, so it has NASCAR style side exits, which are only active when you open the cut outs. This way it gets through MOT and also is a PITA on normal driving (you will get tired of them after a while as will anyone around you)
6. Will I need a fuel pump from a 305 to keep up with the 2 extra cylinders or can I keep my original in?
Good question, i would do a parts check and see which engines the 229 fuel pump is compatible with.
7. Will the engine mounts and prop shaft length be the same? What about the rear diff?
hmm the rear diff fitment wise will be ok, it may just be a case of a different length drive shaft. Worth checking the axle numbers to make sure the diff can handle the torque. The diffs tend to be weaker than the trans.
8. Will my power steering pump and alternator be alright from the 229 v6?
Will have to double check... pretty sure the Power steering will be direct fit as they're very universal.
9. What is involved it registering the car with the DVLA? Is it easy enough? Is anyone going to want to look the car over? What about insurance too, would they be likely to kick up a fuss?
Isn't yours registered already? Or are you looking at a different one? If you just want to let them know of the bigger engine, then you can just inform them over phone / via form. To register it, if not yet registered, is a bit more involving. Need to request a pack from DVLA and have all customs forms available (otherwise you get charged for all the import fees, etc. You should be able to get it insured on the VIN number and drive it to an MOT place to get it MOT'd and avoid going through VOSA / NOVA whichever it's called, can't remember.
10. Is there anything I'm forgetting that will the changing?
Engine mounts would be worth changing at this stage. Hoses and belts may be different but that's pretty trivial stuff. May need some work on the linkages to the throttle body, but that again isn't too bad.

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wow. Thanks for the help. Lot's of info there to get me started. I will always work to work around speedfest so no worries there haha. I think I will stick with my gearbox and offer the new block in and pray it all lines up then if I come across a manual gearbox and pedal box I will change up for that. Worst case it's the regular th200. What do you mean by add a master cylinder? Just Uprate from the current one? This power steering pump booster sounds interesting. You mean the exhausts with the 'Y' pieces with the plates that bolt on? The fuel pump sounds like a pain though, Im guessing there is one in the tank too. As for hoses belts and engine mounts once I have the old engine out Im going to town on tidying up and spraying the engine bay so everything like that is gonna get changed. I think it's safe to assume the engine mounts are gonna be in the same place. GM surly wouldn't have stuck them somewhere different on the chassis for different sized engines right? I guess all the chassis/shells came out the same. And yes my car is registered (it came over in 82 ) I should have been more specific. I just didn't know if it was simply a case of telling the dvla about the engine change or if it was gonna give me grief.

Get the 350. There isn't really anything you will screw up on it and once you have fitted a 305 you will just be pissed you wasted all that time and have to do it all over again, whereabouts in the uk are you? There's nothing wrong with a 305 but after a month or two you will want more cubic inches anyway

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1997 30th Anniversary SS SLP
1993 GMC Typhoon

Lots of questions Here's my two cents...

A quick way to ID the trans is by the shape of it's oil pan. You may have a TH350 which is also a 3 speed auto w/o overdrive, and will be better than the TH200. Either should be fine behind a 305. TH350 would be preferred behind a 350, but if you are looking to replace, go for an overdrive (700-R4 or 200-4R) or manual if that's your preference.

Brakes should be fine as they are - there would be no difference between V6 and V8 models. They can always be improved, but that's another story.

Radiator isn't easy to answer, as cooling is a system and more than just the radiator. It does depend on what's already in there, but the advice of upgrading to a 3rd/4th gen is a good one as they are aluminium. Make sure you go for a matching fan/shroud setup so that it works as designed. I think there was a rad/fan from a 4th gen on ebay right now.

There's lots of different options on exhaust. There's room for dual pipes with mufflers and x-pipe under them, but note the original location for the muffler was a single one going across the car, above the axle. You can get ones to match that or go with separates.

I suspect the fuel pump will be the same and will be up to the job. It's mounted on the engine, not in the tank. They are inexpensive if you need to get a new one.

Engine mounts will be different, and will use a different set of holes in the front sub-frame. Prop-shaft length/fitting depends on what gearbox you have now and what you end up with. If it stays the same, then so can the prop. It will only need changing if the length of the 'box changes. Diff will be fine strength wise.

Steering pump and alternator should be re-usable, but you will probably need V8 bracketry to get them to fit.

Can't help with DVLA stuff.

Others - You will need new manifolds, or better still go for headers. The best fitting ones are Hedmans - many of the others won't fit properly, without hitting the floor.
If you haven't got the engine yet, I'd say try and get a bigger one - 350 or 400 if you can.


Good luck with it.

JamieG brings up a good point about the mounting brackets, I mention about them below, in a nutshell, the ones in there will be knackered so they'll changing anyways due to being rubber. But they're pretty inexpensive to change. I 2nd Twisteds and JamieG's thought on the 350, from what i remember it's the same block as the 305, just the crank and heads are different (and inbetween stuff)? But of course, it's your car so go with what you are most comfortable with.

One thing i just thought of, the fuel lines are likely 5/16 on your car, as it came with the 289. the V8's had 3/8 fuel lines to help with extra flow. Though, mine was also originally a 289 car but the fuel lines were 3/8, so worth checking as if it is 5/16, then it may cause flow restrictions.
Good to hear
I'm 99.9% sure that the auto box has the same fitment and bolt pattern as the other auto boxes, so this part should be ok. The only thing that may be affected is the driveshaft length, but i have a feeling the the case is the same size as the th350. Will double check this.
Sorry, i meant brake booster - the big round thing that sits behind the master cylinder ( i get confused because master has the word cylinder in it, and the booster is a big diaphragm, aka cylinder). You'll definitely want to have some brake assist with a bigger engine. Flakmonkey has a build thread and i believe that the hydro boost bit is mentioned in there.
Ye those are the ones I got mine from badlanz, a company in the U.S and they are electric cut outs, so you control with a swtich. You could even get ones with a manual pull mechanism, like you had in the late 60's Pontiacs and Camaro's as an optional extra, if i remember correctly. Bit cheaper and you don't have to worry about the electric motor burning out. With the bolt on plates, you could run a pipe to the side of the car with a plate bolted on to make it easier to bolt on and off. That's why i thought the valve system would be easier as you don't need to worry about access.
I just checked and the fuel pump is different for the 2 engines, but they are only about £10 in the U.S, so no biggy to change it out. It's really easy as it bolts to the front corner of the engine, just 2 bolts, so will be pretty quick and easy. The only time you find fuel pumps in tanks if on Fuel Injected cars, so ours only have the one bolted to the engine. It looks like this will be the easiest of everything.
Ye the subframe is the same so the mounts are in the same place, it's just the rubber will be cracked and in pieces, so will need to be replaced, ideally with poly ones. I think there's only a difference in mounting brackets between small block and big block. So when you get a replacement, as long as its for a v8 small block, it'll suit either engine you go for (for example if you went with a 305 first, then you know it'll be good for the 350 too).
ah ok, thought so, just wanted to be sure. Ye, easy in that case, same process as informing them of a colour change, so standard procedure for them.

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How to post pics: When writing a message, scroll down and use the "attach file" option. Where possible, a photo sharing service can be used such as Flickr, Imgur etc. The image location (usually ending in .jpg) can be copy and pasted between the ][ brackets that appear when you click the 'Img' button (you can find this button at the top of the message box).

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Thanks for the advice guys. Yeah I hear what you're all saying about a 350 but tbh I can't afford one yet but the main labour intensive bits will be the same aswell as tidying up and spraying the bay and buying all new bolt on parts and changing the cooling system around so I will have most work for a 350 done. Then when I can get a nice one it will literally just be a case of swapping the 305 out for a 350 and sticking my carb and other bolt on bits on there.

I can't add much as ray and Jamie have pretty much covered it... I'd also say, unless you get the 305 for virtually nothing I'd save the extra few hundred for a 350...

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