The Camaro Club (UK)

Hoping someone can shed some light on this as it's been driving me mad for about 2 years. What is the difference between a manual transmission starter and an automatic transmission one. I cannot find any examples or reasons as to what is different between them, other than reading that an auto won't work on a manual. But why? I thought i was onto something with staggered vs. straight bolt patterns but looking at RealSteels catalog, they have staggered bolt pattern for both auto and manual. I have a straight bolt pattern starter but RealSteel don't list a starter motor for a 350 unless it's after '85 and mine is a '74 block.

Based on the real steel model numbers for the staggered units, here are there 2 different ones, but i can't see any difference. Any ideas? They look identical :/

Auto:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Starter-Motor ... 1731347406
http://www.amazon.ca/BBB-Industries-N35 ... automotive

Manual:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACDelco-323-54- ... 1952897660

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From memory. The distance from the back of the engine to the ring gear is different if it has a flex plate (automatic) or a flywheel (manual) so the starter motor nose is slightly longer/or shorter, can't remember which is which

Oh i see, that makes sense. They look so similar, i couldn't make out the difference. I am changing over to a manual soon (once the car is MOT'd. The thing is, it would be installed 200 miles away and i'm worried that the starter won't fit and the driveshaft would be a different length, meaning i'd be stranded. I bought a used starter that i was told was from a manual, but it looked the same. Now i know what to look out for, i'll see if i can take some measurements and compare the nose. Thanks!

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When I bought my starter from Real Steel many years ago, I don't remember manual or auto being questioned. It was only a a matter of which size flywheel, 153 or 168 tooth I think.... as usual, I could be wrong.. .. and I have a later 1 piece seal block.

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Is that the mini starter that you bought from them?

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yup, the one i had rebuilt recently as all the oil from when the timing cover seal went buggered it up..

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“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”

Ahh, can see those pesky parts catalogues have confused some on here huh!

There are only 2 starters types for all chevy v8 engines up until the LS series. Different tooth counts of flexplate/flywheel and these are usually to do with it being a small block or a big one, the mounting bolt pattern is also different. Thats all there is, thankfully americans dont like to make things any more complicated than they need to be. Just make sure you have it shimmed correctly or you will chew up the gears and wish u never touched it.

Theres an awful lot of part commonality between vehicles in the 70-90s era on all american vehicles which makes them easy relatively easy to get bits for and work on.

Shame the rest of the automotive industry has since convinced them that they are wrong and need to make a slight variation on every part in every vehicle model every other year. Would hate the job in motor factors, terrible mess it must be!

Im not looking forward to when cars from early 2000s disappear and we are left with all those gadgets that hide electrical nightmares the marketing department has told peeps they need. You may have spotted the changes in the MOT that have been made to ensure when your novelty electrical coffee cup holder kicks the bucket it will only be fit for the scrap heap.

Oh and just to ruin our fun even more theres a new Euro emissions ruling coming out, you know what that means?! Tiny engines with large turbos and six lambda sensors. Ahahahaha

Parts compatibility certainly is good for these cars, not only can you get something from a 1st to fit on a 3rd gen Camaro etc. but it can also be from a Pontiac, Buick, even a VW. It would be nice for there to be more compatibility generations of models and between different makes and manufacturers. Makes aftermarket care so much eaiser plus general sourcing easier. Also brings the cost down thanks for bulkbuying. It makes too much sense though, which is why we don't see it often. A bit like Apple redesigning a power plug ever year... even though it's only a positive and negative wire, that bit of electricity hasn't changed since Tesla and Edison came up with it lol.

Thanks for the info, even more confused now lol. Looking at the starter specs, they all say that they will work on both flywheel toothcounts. It seems to be the stagger as the main decider and then the nose, as apparently the auto starter is larger and won't fit it's nose into the manual bellhousing. The hi torque mini starters state they work both manual and auto, perhaps that's due to their size. In a nutshell, i'll be finding out the hard way

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yeah its the parts catalogues that are wrong sometimes, Rockauto is a good one, mostly accurate I have found. It really it comes down to the tooth count of the flywheel/flexplate which there are 2 sizes. Typically the larger one is usually for a big block and has a staggered bolt pattern whilst the small block is straight across, this link has more info and pics:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=v3v ... es&f=false


For a manual application I hear its best to go with one that has a fully exposed gear on it, since the bell housing will cover and in any case and avoids any clearance issues. Ive had a hitachi starter for years still works great, heres a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Automotiv ... B003MUSM9Q

Having gone through the same problem with replacing the starter, I can tell you theres also a diesel verson thats looks similar but totally doesnt work. Though if you know anyone that wants one, let me know! The gears on the end of the starters can be swapped but only if you have the same "type" of starter in terms of its construction, probably best avoided.

This query reminds I really ought to do something with the big block I have on a stand having gone to all the trouble of getting it running including the starter swap and other fun games.

I recommend that you check your block for the mounting holes. Some have 2 holes, either straight or staggered, or, if you're lucky it has all three, so you can choose either mounting style.

The mini starters without a nose a usually straight mount, with 2 sets of holes that can be used to switch between the two different size flywheels.

I went with a 90's truck starter, as it's still OEM style, but smaller/high torque. It did need different bolts, as it's designed for metric bolts, but needs imperial threads. I still have 3 spare, as I had to buy a set of 5.

One of the best upgrades on the car (to date)