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Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2542		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  andeeuk [Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Hi guys, finally got my engine running, now down to the transmission.. the car was stripped bare when I got it so am left with many pieces (like a jigsaw without a picture)

I was sold the car as a 4 speed manual gearbox, I can only seem to feel 4 gears (ie. no reverse.. or is it 3 and a reverse?), haven't actually tried to engage gears yet as I have literally only today, just got fuel lines and dizzy set up.

Also notice there are holes where maybe another arm could go to (by bellhousing and above other arms at prop end), but I am stumped..

Can anyone help me identify this box .. and suggest how reverse is engaged?

Thanks!
Andee

Image
Author:  biff.bailey [Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
i could be wrong as its a few years since i sold mine.....but it LOOKS like a borg warner T10 :?:
Author:  andeeuk [Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
I'm thinking it might be a Muncie 20, googling various pictures and judging from bolt holes on the side panel, anyone know if there is supposed to be a reverse lever or how I would select reverse in an 81 camaro with original Manual box.

It has a hurst shifter on if that helps at all

Thanks
Andy
Author:  sportsroof [Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Looks like a 3 speed box you have there. Reverse is probably left and forward with the stick. First is left and back, then 2 and 3 are where you would normally have 3 and 4 with a 4 speed. 3rd is obviously top gear (direct drive) and you will probably find that the step from 2nd to 3rd is very large, with the revs dropping off dramatically. Hope you didn't buy that thinking it was a 4 speed. 4 speed boxes have 3 external levers, your pic only shows 2. HTH.
Cheers, Martin
Author:  andeeuk [Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Hi Martin, thanks for the reply, yes I did buy the car with an original 4 speed manual box, what I did notice was a few holes what could be potentially for another rod, my car also had an extra rod on a bracket that wasn't attached to anything and kind of p clipped up in the body of the car.

All I'm thinking is a lever has gone walkies in the 15 years of dry storage.
Can I tell what box it is supposed to have by the chassis number?

Thanks again
Andy
Author:  evilzee28 [Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Quote:
Hi Martin, thanks for the reply, yes I did buy the car with an original 4 speed manual box, what I did notice was a few holes what could be potentially for another rod, my car also had an extra rod on a bracket that wasn't attached to anything and kind of p clipped up in the body of the car.

All I'm thinking is a lever has gone walkies in the 15 years of dry storage.
Can I tell what box it is supposed to have by the chassis number?

Thanks again
Andy
Hi Andy, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as Martin says, it does look like a 3 speed box. A 4 speed has 3 levers on the side of the box actuated by the shifter rods. Check the casting numbers on the case, there should be one on the tailhousing, the casing itself & the side cover. A Google search of those numbers should help identify it.

Here's a pic of a 3 speed showing which rods do what

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=sagina ... x=53&ty=54


Here's a Saginaw 4 speed


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8365 ... terjv7.jpg

The chassis number won't tell you whether the car had a 3 or 4 speed in it, but the details on the VIN tag on the bulkhead should denote manual or auto trans. The majority of manual Camaros came with Saginaw 3 or 4 speed boxes. It was only on the Z/28 or big block cars that you had the Muncies, unless it was a special order for a Muncie from the factory. Saginaw boxes are made of cast iron & all Muncies are aluminium

You should find this interesting & will help you decode your car.

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro81.php



hth

cheers...Nige
Author:  andeeuk [Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Thanks Martin and Nige, much appreciated for your help

Turns out reverse is where normal manual gearbox 1st would be, 1st ls of course where 2nd would normally be, so that concludes 3 speed plus reverse.

In a sense it's kinda better as I had no clue where to add levers and controls of it came to it.

Last thing to do is adjust the lever position... How hard is this?
The reason why is that the lever is too far forward so in the forward gears it hits the surround for where the lever goes through.

Thanks again guys
Andeee
Author:  sportsroof [Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
If you are OK with the position of the shifter box, but the stick is wrong, just bend it or cut and weld to the desired angle. Do the work down near the bottom and it will not be seen (much) especially if you have a nice shifter boot. You can also make an adapter from steel stock to relocate within reason, so the stick stays unmolested if you prefer. HTH
Cheers, Martin
Author:  andeeuk [Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Quote:
If you are OK with the position of the shifter box, but the stick is wrong, just bend it or cut and weld to the desired angle. Do the work down near the bottom and it will not be seen (much) especially if you have a nice shifter boot. You can also make an adapter from steel stock to relocate within reason, so the stick stays unmolested if you prefer. HTH
Cheers, Martin
Hi Martin, the actual slot where the lever sits in is butting up against the metal surround, I'd have said the whole thing should be angled back an inch or so, is this doable on the rods? Or is it something I don't want to mess with?

I could cut the body slightly but I haven't put the centre console in yet to see how it aligns through that and through the rubber boot.

Thanks
Andy
Author:  sportsroof [Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help identifying this manual gearbox and where is reverse?
Oh, I see, I thought you meant the shifter handle/knob were too close to the dash area.
The shifter box should be fitted to the gearbox via an adapter plate, sounds like the adapter needs modifying to angle the shifter box better. Not hard to do, if you are OK with a little metalworking. Once the shifter box is oriented correctly, then you adjust the rods to assure correct operation and gear selection. There is a small hole in the shifter box to allow correct 'timing' of the rods. Manuals show how this is done if you don't already know. HTH
Cheers, Martin
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