The Camaro Club (UK)
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Not starting properly
http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2169		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  onemanrace [Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Not starting properly
Wonder if anyone's seen this before or knows what's happening -
Lately, the IROC's been refusing to start. She's always been a bit 'churny' before catching, but she'd start on the first turn of the key.
Now it's a turn of the key, I hear the click of something engaging and nothing happens. Occasionally there's a slight rotation and then nothing.
I can think of two things it might be - the gear box maybe? This afternoon, she wasn't starting to I slipped into a neutral and yes, then she started.
Other thing - starter on it's way out?

Or could it equally be some bad wiring somewhere that's also affecting the wipers?
(Still not got round to getting them sorted!)

Any ideas welcome!
Author:  sportsroof [Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Very difficult to diagnose via internet but going to basics is always a good starting point (no pun intended). First, how can your gearbox stop the engine starting? Focus on the starter and the connections associated with it. Check battery connections, earths, cables at the starter,esp, the main (thick) cable. Make sure all are secure (not loose) and reasonably clean. I guess it's sludge-o-matic? Maybe the proveout is faulty, you mention slipping into a neutral (?) and it started/ Badly adjusted proveouts can behave this way. You need to do some basic diagnostics to rule out some possible causes before you can end up with the probable or definite cause.
I'd look at it for you but I guess you are not near me so that's a non-starter (another pun, eh?)
Cheers, Martin
Author:  onemanrace [Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Quote:
First, how can your gearbox stop the engine starting?
It was my understanding that if the 'box is in anything other than P or N, then the engine won't start to avoid damaging the box. If, for some reason, the ECU isn't being told the 'box is in P, then wouldn't it step in to prevent a start?
Quote:
Focus on the starter and the connections associated with it. Check battery connections, earths, cables at the starter,esp, the main (thick) cable. Make sure all are secure (not loose) and reasonably clean.
I do suspect there's a bad earth somewhere, but I'm damned if I can find it. There's a couple of instruments that read badly and generally suggest that there's something going on somewhere - like when I indicate, the battery reading and the RPM's tick in opposite time to the indicator...
Quote:
I guess it's sludge-o-matic? Maybe the proveout is faulty, you mention slipping into a neutral (?) and it started/ Badly adjusted proveouts can behave this way. You need to do some basic diagnostics to rule out some possible causes before you can end up with the probable or definite cause.
I'd look at it for you but I guess you are not near me so that's a non-starter (another pun, eh?)
Cheers, Martin
Sadly, I'm down in Torquay, which I think is pretty much miles from any US specialists. Cheers Martin!
Author:  sportsroof [Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
OK, I understand why you suspected the gearbox but it's not the 'box which prevents the engine starting, it's the shifter mechanism, or rather the switch in the shifter mechanism. You can easily bypass it just as a test by running a live straight to the activator terminal on the starter motor. Just be CERTAIN it's in park first!
Maybe you should also try to track down the problem with your gauges too, I doubt if it's connected to the starting issue but it will probably only get worse...... :cry:
Cheers, Martin
PS, post me a canoe and maybe I'll paddle across the Severn one sunny day....... :lol:
Author:  78 Camaro [Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Ye my initial thought when you said gear box, was the neutral safety switch playing up. As Martin says best to rule out as much as you can and this will def be the easiest. On my 2nd gen the neutral safety switch is in the steering column near the firewall, so i just needed to unplug it, make some connecting plugs and run it to the B&M shifter switch which interacts with the mechanism (neutral and park hit the switch which makes the circuit). As it's a live feed type of wire you should be able to simply jump one connector to the other to rule out the switch. Martin offers some very fine advice there - make sure you're in Park for this one :)
Author:  onemanrace [Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
So, she didn't want to start this morning.
Tried her in N and turned her over - still nothing.
So I'm guessing the gear switch isn't the root of it.
Starter issues then? :?
Author:  chevy-stu [Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Don't know much about the auto box switches, but from your initial description that sounds like the starter on the way out, or a bad earth..

(I could be wrong... :D )
Author:  sportsroof [Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Quote:
Tried her in N and turned her over - still nothing.
Just so I understand properly, you are saying that the engine is cranking OK, just won't fire, am I right?
This engine has FI, yes? and factory electronic ignition? Have you verified spark when this problem occurs? Have you tried introducing fuel to the inlet to see if it helps? Either of these simple test can narrow down where the problem lies. HTH
Cheers, Martin
Author:  onemanrace [Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Quote:
Just so I understand properly, you are saying that the engine is cranking OK, just won't fire, am I right?
No, she's not always cranking.
Sometimes it's like a click as something engages, then maybe a slight turn before she gives up. Other times, she'll just start up normally.
Although, yes, sometimes she's slow to catch and will eventually fire properly.
Quote:
This engine has FI, yes? and factory electronic ignition? Have you verified spark when this problem occurs? Have you tried introducing fuel to the inlet to see if it helps? Either of these simple test can narrow down where the problem lies. HTH
Cheers, Martin
Yeah, she's FI and factory electric ignition. I've not verified spark when this starts, or the fuel in the inlet, but I'll try and make time at the weekend.
I wonder how long the spark plugs have been in for. I imagine a general service of the distributor wouldn't hurt either? Someone's fitted Mallory spark leads at some point, I did notice that last time I was poking about.
Author:  Rockinfox [Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not starting properly
Hi Ime with Stu on this one,its sounding like the brushes in the starter are tired and not riding properly against the armature connection,,comm. The clicking you hear is the solenoid trying to kick in the bendix but unable to draw sufficient current to engage the hefty contacts inside, supplying the starter. Does sound like you have a few ground gremlins. If you have a meter check theres good ground to the body of the starter via the frontplate to the bell housin. I had a problem, faceplate to casing it threw up similars symptoms, Some amongst us must have clouted the starter with the jack handle to avoid the vehicle becoming an obstruction sometimes it works! Hope you get it sorted Steve
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