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Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1451		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  78 Camaro [Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Hey all,

Nearly done with the wiring so if you can help me with a couple of pics i will be very grateful.

I have a couple of wires left that i have no clue what to do with. I have the chilton book with wiring diagrams and the factory assembly manual wiring but they're not much use to me as they're good for following a cable route, but gives no indication as to what to do with it when it need to plug into something. That or i'm dumb at reading wiring diagrams :)

1) So, i have a thick Orange with Black stripe cable, (pictured below) that comes out of the fuse box, splits into 2. 1 end goes into the heater control i think. the other, well it hangs loose with a black terminal connector block. Any idea where this should go? none of the above manuals mention an orange black stripe cable :roll: apparently it's for the power window option, but my pics of when i took it apart appear to show it plugged into something. Yes, the picture miraculously cuts off just where i need it :|

2) Pink black stripe cable that comes out of the fuse block. It splits into 2, one is already connected, the other side has a white plastic terminal end, and again, my pic cuts of right at the edge :roll: but it appears to plug into a blue coloured terminal. no idea what colour the cable it plugs into is, or what it should go to!

3) a small cylcinder (pictured below) that plugs into the fuseblock and it screwd into the bottom left of the fuseblock... i know where this goes, but the cable came out of it! so i wonder what this actually is and if i need to fix it?

Attachments:
File comment:pink black stripe cable, appears to have the clear terminal plugged into a blue terminal, no clue as to the cable colour or what that goes to. You can also see the small cylinder thing that the cable goes to that i broke the cable to after removing. any idea what this thing is and what it does?
IMG_8051.jpg
IMG_8051.jpg [933.33KiB |Viewed 1522 times ]
File comment:you can see the orange / black stripe cable defo looks like it's plugged into something here, but no clue to what :(
IMG_8074.jpg
IMG_8074.jpg [917.62KiB |Viewed 1513 times ]
File comment:The orange black stripe cable ontop of the steering column. the bit on the right i think is part of the loom so that's ok. but see how it appears to be plugged into something on the left? no idea if it is, and what it plugs into
IMG_8089.jpg
IMG_8089.jpg [651.99KiB |Viewed 1514 times ]
Author:  78 Camaro [Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Ok so massive help needed now.

I've been pissing around with this wiring for 4 days now and it's really pissing me off. sorry for my temprament but you'll soon understand why.

The car has original wiring which was fine when i drove it home. it's had a couple of hacks, but nothing major. most of the harness is intact so no wories there.

So far what works:

Courtesty lights
Heater blower

What partly works:

Dash - blue light comes on to tell me high beams are on.
Apparently i have a full tank of fuel
Tach moves up to 7k from 6.5k when i turn the key from off to acc position.

What confuses the bejesus out of me

The wiper motor does sweet F.A
The lights. oh lord. The fronts worked at one point. then when i tried to test the indicators, all they did was dim one light bulb, then when i indicated the other way, the other bulb went brighter. the indicators themselves didnt do anything. WTF?!

Then i plugged the rears in. All the lights went dimmed. but worked. testing indicators did nothing.

So i disconnected the plugs from the steering column etc and plugged them back into exactly where they were. now they act differentyl. The front lights dont work at all.?! The rear lights, only the marker comes on, but when i push the foot brake switch, they turn off. no light comes on.

in short, i want to cry. It makes no sense as it all worked before, i have done nothing, just cleaned the wires. i have not changed harnesses etc. i have checked al the fuses and changed them all for good measure and ohmeter shows the fuse block is functional. what gets me is the cables can only go in a certain way due to funky plug shapes and sizes so im completely baffled. The strange thing is most things work, just not as they are supposed to, so clearly there is power going to things.

Can anyone help before i go insane?

I have exhausted the net for diagrams, pics etc. I have 2 x different sources of wiring diagrams and they are al bloody useless as they only tell you that a yellow cable goes from plug 14 to 37. wow, fantastic that it does that. but they give no indication as to what the wire does as a function, what it is supposed to do, whether it's permanent live, signal, switched etc so im about to screw them up as i'm at a total loss here!

Thanks in advance and sorry for the rant, but i really can't understand how this can happen from taking a harness out and putting back in. I could understand if i was using aftermarket new wiring or had a massively hacked one but it worked fine before so i just can't understand.

Cheers,

Ray
Author:  chevy-stu [Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Only words of help I can offer is 2nd gen Camaro's seem to be subject to very bad earthing problems. I've had all sorts of issues with mine, and now have extra cables running all over the place as I couldn't get certain things to work like sidelights, wiper motor, stereo, and extra earths running for indicators and headlights...

You have my deepest sympathy, as I'm possibly gonna rip all the wiring out of mine and buy a whole new harness at some point as half the original stuff doesn't work, and has been so bodged by others before me too..
Author:  78 Camaro [Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Thanks Stu, good to know i'm not the only with an issue with the wiring :)
Interesting about the grounding issues, i have 3 ground points for the interior, all ohm tested to work well, same with the lights but i'll try to "dig" deeper into the harness to maybe see if there are ground issues there.

I've uploaded some video's to show the randomness and wiring i'm working with. Can't really justify the cost of a new harness at $400 + seeing as it's mostly intact and did work, so i'm hoping by showing these video's a few of the electric guru's would be able to point out what could possibly be going wrong. My favourite part about the whole thing is that to turn the lights off, i need to disconnect the battery. that could be awkward in the future!





Cheers and look forward to being sane again!

Ray
Author:  evilzee28 [Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Ray, don't you ever sleep?? :lolno: I'm not very good with electrics I'm afraid, so not gonna be able to help you with this, but this place might be of use to you, there's some good info that's simple to understand.

http://www.nastyz28.com/2gcog/wiring.html

Hope you get it sorted soon,

cheers...Nige
Author:  78 Camaro [Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Hey Nige,

Not a lot of sleep at the mo, camaro's keeping me up all night :)

thanks for the link, that's where i got the diagrams that are printed out in the vids. I can't get on with them tho, they don't give any info as to current flow, pos, neg, switched etc so it doesnt really help me determine with a voltmeter what is going on. I learned recently that some circuits are actually wired as ground switched, so the instrument is permanently powered, and it's the ground on a switch that makes the circuit to turn it on. So basically you have 2 logics of switches running through. awesome. So i'm at a loss still, while the wiring is there, even with a voltmeter everything looks fine.

I'm on page 25 of 100+ on the nastyz28 electric forums, still nothing :(

Something that may make sense, and i use that word lightly ;) is that there's a rod that runs through the column. perhaps that's damaged / not fully functional? i had to hammer the column into place (with a rubber hammer) to get it go far enough into the linkage under the hood as it was being a stubborn so and so. so pushin it in by hand meant it didn't go far enough to allow the nut and bolt to lock in. What happens is that when you turn the key, there is no definate difference between ACC and IGN. it sits firmly in the off position, moves backwards to the ACC position and sits nicely, but there's a lack of a "sitting position" when you turn the key forward to ACC and IGN. don't know if somethings misaligned maybe? strange thing is blower motor works, which i understand to be switched +12 and i can start the engine (damn it sounds good.. no exhaust attached :) ) so it kinda makes me think that maybe the column is fine.

in summary: :(

Cheers!

Ray
Author:  78 Camaro [Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Ok so update.

Have spent hourrrrrsssss trying to get things working. Now have all the lights working properly, indicators, high beam switch, side lights etc. I wish i could tell you how. I really do. It involved pushing and pulling wires and connectors around, changing fuses and cleaning some connectors (inc the light bulb housing). So i didn't actually do much, it just started coming to life. I did pull out the brake light swtich, as, true to ass backwardsness, it works in reverse, so open, it is on, so it relies on the brake in normal resting position pushing it in, for it be off. word to the wise.

The indicators were fun. i tried to swap over the 2 hazard flashers, the 2 round silver things incase anyone wanted to know, they are the same and can be swapped. Only the one on the fuse panel refused to come out. After about 5 minutes of manic pulling the hazards came on. not the desired effect. then i switched to left indicator position, and only the left side started flashing. switched to right, only right started flashing. Win. but not logical. so question:

Which is the hazard flasher and which is the indicator flasher? One is on the fuse block, the other hangs from the loom.
Question 2
I need to hook up a hazard switch. how does one go about this?

I also found my gauge or radio fuse kept blowing. (how are they named? is it the name above or below the fuse?) Traced it back to the wire on the engine side of the firewall, plugs into the top of the intake manifold, between the distributor and the carb. this apparently is a short, as when it was pulled out,worked fine. nice way to test for a ground / short circuit in a + line is to hook up a 12v light bulb. took a spare headlight bulb, put one end of the wire and touched it to one side of the fuse holder, then took the other end of the light cable, stuck it into the other side of the fuse holder (no fuse in it) and it switched on. when i pulled the cable out of what i think is the water temp sender, the light went out meaning the temp sender is shorted, or had the wrong cable going to it. it is a brown wire, but the wiring diagram suggest dark green. anyone can confirm? there is a green wire in that are of the engine bay, so it can be either, what confuses me is that they are both part of the main harness, so it can't be someones bodge job. maybe the green is supposed to go there, the brown somewhere else? it's not the tach wire, as the tach wire comes through the firewall and is ready for connection so basically i have 2x brown wires with a terminal end and a green wire with a terminal end. anyone can confirm what these are for? p.s there are 2x green wires in the engine bay, one is the horn and is part of the lighting bundle, so it's not that one.

Question 3
What is the sender on the back of the intake manifold, between the carb and the distributor block? I would say temp sender, could be oil though? i have an Edelbrook performer 1201 (think that's the right number :roll: ) if that helps.

The fan blower works. The courtesy lights work. the dome will when i find a light bulb for it. (has 12v + to it)

The windscreen wipers dont work. it's an issue on the controller end. again, worked when i drove it home. it was rainy so i know this for sure :)
Basically 3 wires come into the switch... 1 x orange and 1 white and 1 green (if i remember correctly). the orange has 12v on the switch. the other 2 wires dont have any voltage. should they? no matter what position you put the switch in, there is no 12v coming out of the outbound loom, which has 4x terminals. 2x black and 1 blue and 1 green. hope i remembered right. so not sure what's going on there. opened up the switch eventually and cleaned it all out, wasnt really dirty anyway but did for good measure and still no change. any ideas?!

I'm orderin a new light switch, but would prefer an alternate one, which has a simpler "put together" mechanism as the way you mount it and put the rod in is just ridiculous, which is why it's damaged now. .. had to take it out the dash mount but this proved almost impossible! any one know of a better system? i would lover a ford (sorry!!!) style off, side lights, main beams type sweep switch for the camaro ( will need the dash light feed out of it). Anyone know if these exist?

Right, time to get our (fake) champagne on! bring on 2011 with no wiring issues :)

Camaro New Year to y'all!!

Cheers,

Ray
Author:  evilzee28 [Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Wow, that looks like a major nightmare, best of luck getting it sorted out though. Have a good New year

cheers...Nige
Author:  chevy-stu [Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
Quote:
I did pull out the brake light swtich, as, true to ass backwardsness, it works in reverse, so open, it is on, so it relies on the brake in normal resting position pushing it in, for it be off. word to the wise.
I almost thought of mentioning that it's open switch for contact, so unbolted from the pedal assembly it's "ON"..... But you worked it out..

Quote:
Question 3
What is the sender on the back of the intake manifold, between the carb and the distributor block? I would say temp sender, could be oil though? i have an Edelbrook performer 1201 (think that's the right number :roll: ) if that helps.
The water temp sender is 'normally' on side of the cylinder head between the exhaust outles. No oil up there on the inlet manifold that I can think of, so not sure what that might be. Vacuum sender, or some kind of airflow/AFR sensor maybe. ?
Author:  mark68 [Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple 2nd gen underdash wiring
2am, and you are trying to figure out auto-electrickery?! :crazy:

I hope you have made progress on your wiring loom! I know I had problems with my rear lights on the '68, ended up putting extra earth wires to the light cluster body just to make sure it worked!

I will be re-wiring my car, but I bought an American Autowire Update harness, has everything that I should need, and is also labeled. The problem with older cars is that the cables get heat hardened, and become very brittle, as you probably know, which is ok, if you leave them alone, but when you disturb them....

Even with my new loom, I'm not confident that it will all work as it should....especially after reading your post!

As for your hazards/indicator relays, I think the one that is "floating" behind the dash is your hazard flasher. I had to replace my flasher in the fuse box, thankfully they are easily sourced over here!

On a side note, if you need connectors etc these guys are fairly good:

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu

Sorry I could not be much help, it's quite difficult diagnosing, unless you are physically at the problem :)

Cheers,
Mark
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