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Rear defogger operation http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4158 |
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Author: | 78 Camaro [Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Rear defogger operation |
Just wondered about other peoples experience here - i turned the rear window defogger on yesterday, after about 10 seconds it clicked and switched itself off. Didn't clear the fog, had to keep switching it on every 5 seconds, it would then stay on for a bout 5 seconds. On the clio i was used to it staying on for as long as you needed. Appears it has a timeout relay or something? Cheers! Ray |
Author: | 3rdGenmalc [Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
I had a second gen that did that but it did clear the fogged backlight. |
Author: | 78 Camaro [Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
It's a bit annoying as even by switching it on every minute it still barely clears anything by the time i get to work as it's only for about 5 or 10 seconds at a time. I found the information about it in the service manual, turns out the solid state timer is built into the relay and that 'timer relay' is in the passenger footwell, attached to the plastic dash. Hopefully Rocky will be able to hook one up, i can swap it out and see the difference. From what i understand there is a resistor and capacitor in the circuit, that's what controls the timing. So when i remove mine, i will try and take it apart and solder new ones in and hopefully that will work. Don't want to take it out as it still kind of works as a back up. Hmm, actually, maybe i can put a temporary switch and relay in. Got a spare relay kicking about that's 30 amps. Here's the wiring diagrams and info for anyone that will find it useful. If i manage to fix it, i'll post that up too. p.s didn't know you had a second gen... any pics of it about? |
Author: | 78 Camaro [Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Alright, so got a used timer relay from one of Rocky's cars that was in for breaking and fitted it yesterday. This morning, the car was covered in ice, so started the engine and clicked the defroster and.... it turned off after 20 seconds What the hell. I can only assume that over time, they degrade? They are an absolute bar steward to get to... accessing the relay is done by remove the middle panel of the dash - there's the bottom part, which is parallel to the floor and holds the footwell light, the middle piece which is at a 45 degree angle and then the main part of the dash that faces you, with the velcro glove box. It's the middle one that you can unscrew and then see the relay. However, to actually undo the screws that hold it in, it's typical car design: you need to undo the bottom part of the dash to see the screws as they are screwed in from the footwell facing the back. To actually get to those screws (seeing as our arms only have a couple of swivel points) you need to undo the ECM, that's not enough, also unplug it and try it pull it out of the way past a jumble of wires that effectively hold it in place. Finally you can get to the 7mm screws. ugh. Why not just have the screws on the side that the relay is on in the first place. Would mean you dont have to disasemble half of the dash. Or, why not have the relay behind the dash so you don't have to take the front half off. Ugh. Car designs. Ok so anyway, i'm stuck now, is the point. I was thinking of taking apart the relay and replacing the components in it - they must wear down with time? Maybe even put in a temporary relay with just a straight forward on off switch, so that i control the amount of time it stays on. Only worry with this is.... is there a risk in doing so i.e is it turning off, because there's a problem elsewhere? Too much resistance somewhere maybe? I go back and forth on this - Shouldn't that mean that each time it would be on for the exact same amount time, as it would reach a 'safety' limit. at the moment, it's on for say 20-30 seconds at start, then 5-10 seconds the second time you push it. The design is 10 minutes at start and 5 minutes thereafter. So it seems to be following that logic where it's on for longer at the start then less time afterwards. If you push the switch a couple of seconds after it's just been on it will turn straight back off, you have to give it a minute or so for it to work, then it stays on for a bout 5 - 10 seconds. Quite keen to get it sorted as when leaving work, i have to reverse out of a driveway, in the dark, with no reverse lights, in a bit of a tight spot, which was a bit of a challenge when it wasn't dark or foggy or icey. |
Author: | Twistedsanity [Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Put a normal relay in and go direct to the battery, if that's ok then try using the normal wiring, I would just wire it up and have an ignition feed so it cnt be left on accidentally when your out of the car , oh how I wish I had one on my 4th gen ! |
Author: | 78 Camaro [Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Cheers - i think that i will give the separate relay a try. Trying to find some spade connectors (that will plug into the existing wiring connecting) but Maplins and Halfords don't seem to do the yellow ones in spade format? The blue ones only go up to 15amp, which would be 180 watts, i think that the defroster uses more - somewhere around 200 / 240 if i remember correctly. The fuse is 25 or 30 amp on it, so imagine that it's somewhere more in that region. Quote: Put a normal relay in and go direct to the battery, if that's ok then try using the normal wiring, I would just wire it up and have an ignition feed so it cnt be left on accidentally when your out of the car , oh how I wish I had one on my 4th gen !
I remember seeing grids that you can buy and stick on to a rear screen - could that be an option? Do you use the 4th gen everyday?
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Author: | Twistedsanity [Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Are they standard sized spades or small ones? I may have some in the shed I can pop in the post for you tomorrow, I did have a quick look for the stick on defoggers on fleabay but couldn't see any, I do use the camaro most week days as the mrs takes the shogun to work with her and now I have had the brakes done its so much more fun :-) |
Author: | 78 Camaro [Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
I believe 1/4" / 6.3mm but will need to check - thanks I will look at the wiring diagram tonight and see how i could go about it and what will be needed. Would be nice to keep the existing switch in place. Had a look at rear defroster grids and was surprised to not find any You'd think it would be something you can get from a regular auto parts shop. Alternatively, you could go the route of the 2nd (and maybe 1st) gens... they had a heater blower in the parcel shelf, attached in the way a speaker would be - blows hot air up as the front defogger would. It's a self contained unit, so it heats air from i understand and then blows it onto the window, kind of like a mini fan heater. Wonder if that's something that could be installed? Someone on here was selling one from a second gen, or maybe possible to rig one up from various parts? Here's a few pics of the fan style one in a javelin: http://theamcforum.com/forum/rear-windo ... 54229.html |
Author: | Twistedsanity [Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Good link, think I'm gonna try the potato trick first |
Author: | 78 Camaro [Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rear defogger operation |
Quote: think I'm gonna try the potato trick first
Let me know how that goes I took apart the relay that came out of the car... not too difficult, just use a flathead screwdriver to pry the metal tabs out a bit, then pry the black plastic bottom plate away from the metal case. Looked up all of the resistor ratings and tested them, everything was well within the 5% prescribed tolerance. Some were within 0.1%, one was about 1% out. http://www.michaels-electronics-lessons ... -code.html I checked the diode and it has a reading of 0.583v and no current in reverse direction so that checks out too. There are 2 capacitors - one is a standard black style one, 47uF. The other is a yellow one, says intercap .1/5/100 Not sure how to these. Black one has a resistance of 15kOhms. Yellow one a resistance of 1.5mOhms. Only other thing on there is the 8 legged chip and the coil for the relay. I was hoping to find a bad resistor and just swap it out. Looks like they are all good though. WTF. Capacitor maybe? Would any of this explain the annoyingly short 'on' period for it? Cheers! |
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