The Camaro Club (UK)
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Advice - Hot water plumbing!
http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4094		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  jon_buss [Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Advice - Hot water plumbing!
My 1991 5.7 had it's aircon 'removed' (other than the pump for some reason!) before I got it. I'm trying to sort it out and am intending to get a Dorman A/C pulley bypass from Summit and one of the firewall A/C delete panel recommended by 3rdGenMalc once the funds can stomach it.

In the meantime I've just replaced all eight injectors as she was running really badly and she's now running SO much better. However, while doing this I've noticed some 'odd' plumbing to say the least. It looks like there should be a water feed going through the front of the injection plenum, looks like it goes via the throttle body. This seems to have been bypassed on mine so there is a small bore water pipe looping over the top of the block from the water pump over to the heater matrix side of the engine. There seems to be water pipe connectors either side of the throttle body which match this but I'm not sure if this is where they should go and it's not clear from what I can see in the manual. There is also what looks like an unused water connector on the anti smog gear on top of the passenger side rocker cover and another metal pipe low down on the passenger side near the header running near where the A/C pipes would have gone.

Not sure why this was bypassed, anyone got any ideas? Also, what is the effect of this? Should I put it back, in which case which pipe connects to which?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm not worried about getting heat into the car at the moment but the better I can get her running the happier I'll be. Ultimately the anti-smog stuff will go as the cats have already gone, but the water presumably heats the throttle body or am I missing something?

I''ll try and post pics tomorrow to show what I'm attempting to explain, but if anyone has any words of wisdom I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance

Jon
Author:  jon_buss [Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
Just in case anyone is interested (I didn't exactly have an overwhelming response to my plea for help!) I have managed to figure out my issue / problem.

Seems someone had previously done the 'throttle body bypass' mod on my car to reduce the air temperature to (supposedly) increase power. However, they had got a bit carried away and bypassed the entire heater core in doing it. I have left the throttle body without heat, but moved one side of the water pipe back to the vacuum heater valve (which I mistakenly thought was part of the anti-smog gear). I then re-connected the other end to the metal pipe running near the passenger wheel well (which hooks back to the heater core). I now have heat :) However I have two pipes which run under the engine and turn towards the rear of the car under the sump, anyone have any idea what they are for?

I had additional issues as the fan wasn't functioning (turned out to be a bad earth) then I couldn't get the air moving around the cabin (turned out to be a disconnected vacuum hose which used to connect via the cruise control). Finally the air from the fan was coming into the engine bay due to the previous removal of the A/C core which acts as a seal to this unit. Temporary fix of gaffa tape fixed this, but I've ordered a panel from www.acdelete.com to sort this properly. Also ordered the A/C bypass pulley from Summit Racing to remove the large A/C unit which isn't used any more. Think it would have been too expensive to reconnect all of this as I'd no doubt need new seals, gas and maybe even the unit itself.....

So far it's cost me about £5 in vacuum hose and a load of time working on it and trawling the net for answers, but I now have air, fan, heat and vacuum working again which is good. Just need to finish the job off properly once the bits come in from the states....

I realise I hadn't posted pictures as mentioned, but as I got no response from anyone to my first ever post I assumed no-one was willing / able to help a newbie :cry:
Author:  3rdGenmalc [Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
I did do a picture search to try and see what you were talking about but nothing usable came up.
It always helps to post pics in the first instance, helps us see what you are talking about.
Anyway, glad you got to fix it yourself, makes you feel good dunnit ?

Give the firewall a good lookover to see if there is any rot, I had some starting right under the blower motor.
I sealed it with some gooey stuff from the local car repair shop.

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Author:  3rdGenmalc [Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
BTW, it´s a good idea to put sealer on that seam below the blower motor and then plenty of paint.
Water coming in is "supposed" to flow over it. :thumbup:

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Author:  78 Camaro [Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
Glad you've been able to sort it out :thumbup:
Quote:
I realise I hadn't posted pictures as mentioned, but as I got no response from anyone to my first ever post I assumed no-one was willing / able to help a newbie
Not at all :) We like everyone equally here, there just aren't that many people that post. We have a lot of readers - i think that us Camaro owners are introverts :)
Quote:
there just aren't that many people that post
Quoting myself here as this has been the case with the forum for a while (you'll see it as a recurring theme in the general section)... what happens is that not many people post, so people complain that they don't get responses within a few hours, then join another forum (usually based in the U.S) and don't come back (viscous cycle). These other forums have more members, so faster responses (it helps that in the U.S there are hundreds of thousands of more Camaro's, dare i say millions, than over here - that's a lot more users and owners, who have all often had to fix various things... it's the law of big numbers: the more numbers you have, the more variations and the more situations there are. If say, we had 5 Camaro's in the UK, each would have it's own individual hurdle, different to the other. The next hurdle that comes up, will be unique and the first time it has come up in the UK. In the states, each hurdle has come up several times over, hence they are better at replying and posting solutions). I was just as keen to learn the solution, i just think that everybody was in the same boat here - it just hasn't come up before with any of the members.

It's good that you came back to post your findings and solution, we need more of that, rather than people that post a question, then disappear. We have (for third gens) some regular posters on here that know their stuff... 3rdGenMalc, Fiero, NeiltheCop, Rocky etc. Usually they will reply within a couple of days (often same day) with really helpful info, so if they haven't replied, it usually means that it's something spurious that's come up. So please don't take it as a newbie thing... we appreciate everyone on the forum equally, we just need to get more posts going to stop the status quo of people disappearing to other forums abroad, instead, using your post as an example to post back findings :thumbup:

What you've done below is spot on what we need - you've walked us through the solution. Had all of those people that didn't get an initial response stayed and kept sharing the knowledge (even if they had to go elsewhere to find it) the site would be more attractive in regards to knowledge. Whenever i come across a hurdle and need to post on an alternate forum, i will always duplicate the content on here to keep the place going. I don't know much about engines, body work etc so i have to ask a lot of questions. If people didn't post on forums i wouldn't be able to learn, so when i find something of value, i will post it somewhere like in my build thread, to help pass on the knowledge.

The Too Long Didn't Read version: We need people to post more info and not migrate to other forums (it's ok to use other forums if you can't find what you need here, just be nice if people could post back their experience on here like you have :) ).

Cheers,

Ray
Author:  3rdGenmalc [Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
While your doing the A/C delete it would be wise to look in the plenum at the base of your windshield,
after all these years it get´s grotty in there.
I put new sealer in there as far as my arm could go, each side, then plenty o´ paint.

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Author:  jon_buss [Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
Cheers for all the advice / pics. Really appreciate it.

Sorry for the minor rant and thanks for understanding! I promise that any useful info I get I will post back on here, although the US sites are good I'd rather build up the info on this side of the pond as well. I tend to get a bit carried away with things and this car is the result of over 20 years needing an american car. Although I dream of a 1st gen, I didn't have the extra £15k needed to get one. However I must say, the 3rd gen is a cracking car and good looking to boot. I'd just rather a few less electronics / computers personally (despite a background in electronic engineering).

I love tinkering, and the car was cheap due to some simple (ish) problems to resolve.

Will try and post some pics of mine later now it's semi sorted on the heat front. Have also ordered a genuine 1991 dealer workshop manual so if anyone needs pages / info scanned in the future I'd be happy to help (once it arrives that is!)

Thanks again

Jon
Author:  3rdGenmalc [Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
As far as less electronics is concerned you´re pretty much screwed having injection....but that´s a big plus. :thumbup:

I bought an ´86 car with carb and real stone age electronics, plus all those itty bits on the Q-Jet started breaking. :thumbdown:
So at least I could dump the 5.0 and install a 5.7 ridding me of all that wiring and ECM. :thumbup:

The A/C delete cleans up the engine compartment no end, when that´s in and that friggin´great pump has gone you´ll get to your spark plugs so much quicker. :thumbup:

You can also dispose of the condeser in front of the rad too. :thumbup:
Author:  jon_buss [Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
Well, it's progressing!

Original dealer manual arrived, meant I discovered the two pipes running under the engine were for the oil cooler! I just expected this to be at the front, not above the oil filter!

Also, despite getting the fan going after I fixed the bad earth, found I only had slow, slow-medium and fast-medium fan speeds. Fast didn't work. Turns out this fan speed is controlled by a seperate relay (rather than the three resistors in the blower assembly). Once I'd fixed the bad earth on this as well (!!) and re-connected another connector I couldn't see before I now have the 'fast' speed fan as well. Still no extra money spent which is good.....

A/C Pulley Bypass unit turned up from Summit so I fixed that and got rid of the HUGE pump, also got rid of the A/C rad etc. All of that is now removed which does tidy things up a bit and looses some weight from the old girl :D

Still waiting for the replacement panel though from acdelete, but it'll turn up eventually I hope, so I'm stuck with gaffa tape covering the old A/C core hole in the heater panel. At least it works, sort of, for now! Also new water pump arrived to hopefully fit this weekend as the old one seems to be making a nasty dry bearing noise which takes away from the lovely v8 burble

Will post pics once the new panel comes. Thanks for all the help and advice, much appreciated!!!

Once this bit is done I'll probably start picking peoples brains about Smog / Air Pump removal.......I know I need a different length belt, looks like my twin cats are long gone, but there is still 'air' going into the non-cat exhaust via the long pipes that run alongside the exhaust. Also, despite the non standard exhause it still has the standard headers with the air going in so I'll need plugs for now (until I can afford new headers that is.....) Still, I'll start a new thread about this so avoid confusing things :chevy:
Author:  3rdGenmalc [Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice - Hot water plumbing!
I´ve got Hedman Headers and Y pipe on my Camaro, they are way better than the
small diameter Edelbrocks.

Headers;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-68470
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Ypipe;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-17478

Best way to connect Y pipe to exhaust, mine is 2.5 to 3 inches.
They are meant for headers to exhaust, that´s why there is a pair.
http://www.summitracing.com/dom/parts/flo-15925
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Rough welding but it holds.
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