The Camaro Club (UK) ::Braking...?

My '81 Z28 is the first classic I've ever owned. I can't really say I find the braking that impressive. It lacks feedback, quite a long soft travel of the pedal too. Lastly, and probably the most concerning factor is the braking distance, it's like a bus! I do appreciate this is the nature of older vehicles.

If everything is in tip top condition it should feel 'adequate'... of course this is depending on what you feel is reasonable... but it should give you confidence.
It's worthwhile putting in new fluid and pads, then progress through other components if there's still issues.

Other options are big brake conversions but it depends on your budget and driving style.

Quote:

Pull the check valve and make sure it's working, also the vacuum line from the intake.

The brakes sounds like they could use new fluid and bleeding as Stu suggests. They shouldn't be comparative to a bus, that's for sure. Friend with a 2nd gen had bad brakes, so bled them and they got better, but what made a bigger difference (in addition) was bleeding the master cylinder. This was done by one person opening the brake fill lid, loosening flare nut a bit and the other pushing on the brake (slowly, to avoid brake fluid shooting up), then after a few seconds tightening the flare nuts, letting off brake, repeating a few times.
Is the cam stock? Just wonder as i've heard that lumpy cams can lead to low vacuum.
Cheers!

The thing is, these are old cars with old fashioned systems. I think you'd need a very expensive set up to feel like a modern car... My 2005 5 series BMW 'seems' like it stops better, because it has a modern very assisted feel to make driving easier....
I've got a rear disc conversion, and C5 Corvette brakes on the front of my Camaro, big 2 piston calipers, 13" discs, hard pads, stainless lines, hi temp race fluid etc, and it still feels like you have to stamp on the stop pedal to get them to work compared to the BMW.... but in reality, once up to temperature it probably stops as well or better, and certainly has no brake fade during hard use... just way less assisted...
The standard system isn't too bad for most people, and unless you're repeatedly very hard braking from speed, most will be fine with a good condition standard set up with decent, pads, discs and fluid.

Author:	The Seer [Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Braking...?
My '81 Z28 is the first classic I've ever owned. I can't really say I find the braking that impressive. It lacks feedback, quite a long soft travel of the pedal too. Lastly, and probably the most concerning factor is the braking distance, it's like a bus! I do appreciate this is the nature of older vehicles. How do others find their second generations?

Author:	chevy-stu [Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
If everything is in tip top condition it should feel 'adequate'... of course this is depending on what you feel is reasonable... but it should give you confidence. It's worthwhile putting in new fluid and pads, then progress through other components if there's still issues. Other options are big brake conversions but it depends on your budget and driving style.

Author:	NeilTheCop [Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
Quote: My '81 Z28 is the first classic I've ever owned. I can't really say I find the braking that impressive. It lacks feedback, quite a long soft travel of the pedal too. Lastly, and probably the most concerning factor is the braking distance, it's like a bus! I do appreciate this is the nature of older vehicles. Pull the check valve and make sure it's working, also the vacuum line from the intake.

Author:	The Seer [Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
Quote: If everything is in tip top condition it should feel 'adequate'... of course this is depending on what you feel is reasonable... but it should give you confidence. It's worthwhile putting in new fluid and pads, then progress through other components if there's still issues. Other options are big brake conversions but it depends on your budget and driving style. I think rather than lay out on uprated pads/disc etc. it might be worth going straight to the big brake kit. My Integra Type-R weighed 1100 kgs, 15" rims, discs warped many times. The Camaro has 15" rims and weighs 1600 kgs, I think the Honda story is gonna happen all over again. I do like late braking at over 100 mph when called for I don't mind laying out as long as the braking becomes that of a modern day performance car.

Author:	The Seer [Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
Quote: Quote: My '81 Z28 is the first classic I've ever owned. I can't really say I find the braking that impressive. It lacks feedback, quite a long soft travel of the pedal too. Lastly, and probably the most concerning factor is the braking distance, it's like a bus! I do appreciate this is the nature of older vehicles. Pull the check valve and make sure it's working, also the vacuum line from the intake. Thanks for the diagram there, very helpful It might be worth having a new brake booster rather tinkering with the current one which I believe maybe as old as the car itself.

The Camaro Club (UK) http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/

Braking...? http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4776	Page 1 of 2

Author:	78 Camaro [Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
The brakes sounds like they could use new fluid and bleeding as Stu suggests. They shouldn't be comparative to a bus, that's for sure. Friend with a 2nd gen had bad brakes, so bled them and they got better, but what made a bigger difference (in addition) was bleeding the master cylinder. This was done by one person opening the brake fill lid, loosening flare nut a bit and the other pushing on the brake (slowly, to avoid brake fluid shooting up), then after a few seconds tightening the flare nuts, letting off brake, repeating a few times. Is the cam stock? Just wonder as i've heard that lumpy cams can lead to low vacuum. Cheers!

Author:	chevy-stu [Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
The thing is, these are old cars with old fashioned systems. I think you'd need a very expensive set up to feel like a modern car... My 2005 5 series BMW 'seems' like it stops better, because it has a modern very assisted feel to make driving easier.... I've got a rear disc conversion, and C5 Corvette brakes on the front of my Camaro, big 2 piston calipers, 13" discs, hard pads, stainless lines, hi temp race fluid etc, and it still feels like you have to stamp on the stop pedal to get them to work compared to the BMW.... but in reality, once up to temperature it probably stops as well or better, and certainly has no brake fade during hard use... just way less assisted... The standard system isn't too bad for most people, and unless you're repeatedly very hard braking from speed, most will be fine with a good condition standard set up with decent, pads, discs and fluid.

Author:	The Seer [Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
Quote: The brakes sounds like they could use new fluid and bleeding as Stu suggests. They shouldn't be comparative to a bus, that's for sure. Friend with a 2nd gen had bad brakes, so bled them and they got better, but what made a bigger difference (in addition) was bleeding the master cylinder. This was done by one person opening the brake fill lid, loosening flare nut a bit and the other pushing on the brake (slowly, to avoid brake fluid shooting up), then after a few seconds tightening the flare nuts, letting off brake, repeating a few times. Is the cam stock? Just wonder as i've heard that lumpy cams can lead to low vacuum. Cheers! I think may well need to be bled. The previous owner did comment it was an area that needed attention. Thanks for detailing the process The cam is certainly not stock and could be cause for the low vacuum. Is there any way round this if this is the problem aside from changing the cam?

Author:	The Seer [Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
Quote: The thing is, these are old cars with old fashioned systems. I think you'd need a very expensive set up to feel like a modern car... My 2005 5 series BMW 'seems' like it stops better, because it has a modern very assisted feel to make driving easier.... I've got a rear disc conversion, and C5 Corvette brakes on the front of my Camaro, big 2 piston calipers, 13" discs, hard pads, stainless lines, hi temp race fluid etc, and it still feels like you have to stamp on the stop pedal to get them to work compared to the BMW.... but in reality, once up to temperature it probably stops as well or better, and certainly has no brake fade during hard use... just way less assisted... The standard system isn't too bad for most people, and unless you're repeatedly very hard braking from speed, most will be fine with a good condition standard set up with decent, pads, discs and fluid. So, to alter the old fashioned braking system is it possible to direct buy bolt on upgrades to replace the archaic components? Also I'm guessing the Corvette brakes didn't fit under the standard 15" rims?

Author:	Jamieg285 [Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Braking...?
The only bigger brake upgrade that I know of that will fit inside 15" wheels is B body, where the disc is 1" bigger than stock. Not sure if that uses the same calipers or not. There is a willwood caliper that upgrades from stock and has 2 pistons, jury is out as to whether it's a worthy upgrade or not. Most upgrades rely on bigger discs and better calipers, needing 17" wheels in most cases, and 18" in some of the more extreme examples. The C5 upgrade requires 17"s and some adapters/cutting to the stock uprights (unless you go for the C5 based conversion uprights). In some cases you will need to change the MC to match the new calipers. My C4 based calipers needed a smaller MC. Going to manual brakes is an option, but requires more effort with daily driving - you don't mention what the main use/reason for decent brakes are. I think switching to manual requires a smaller MC too. The best upgrade I made to the stock system was going to Hawk SPS pads.

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