The Camaro Club (UK) ::Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?

hello.... yes, I did have a TH350 auto, and after getting it and converter rebuilt once, and then it needing doing again within a year I decided to go manual, as I was into driving it round corners more than drag racing so it was converted to a TKO about 5 years ago.

You'll need the pedal bar assembly as you know, crossmember needs replacing or modding (mine just a has a centre section cut and moved back/reversed to fit the TKO mount), clutch assembly and flywheel.
Mines hydraulic so also needed slave and master cylinders and pipework plus link rod from pedal to master cylinder.
The transmission tunnel wil need cutting/enlarging, and the console changing or modifying, plus a suitable set back shifter or it'll hit the dash when you change gear.
Also the propshaft will need shortening as the TKO is a bit longer.

Most of the work was done initially by Alders Automatics, who may know their stuff about auto boxes, but frankly did a bit of a rubbish job on mine as they'd never done it before and didn't admit they didn't have a clue at the time... most issues have been sorted now.

They used a TKO500 (same as 600, but slightly different ratios, and torque rating) as they got a Cobra TKO kit from Southern Roadcraft (http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk) as that's what they had in stock.
There were a few issues with this particular kit as it was designed for a Ford engine so had a Ford 10 spline input shaft, but with a Chevy bellhousing so it would fit my engine, hence my car now uses a Chevy pressure plate but a Ford disc.
Also they fitted the master cylinder flush to the bulkhead so the pressure angle to the pedal was all wrong, so it never worked properly, and the standard Sachs clutch could not take any power and slipped immediately as did the next 'uprated' replacement. (4 clutches later I'm now using McLeod RST twin plate which cope fine)
Also they cut the tunnel hole too small so the gearbox used to hit the body on acceleration.

If you go hydraulic you need an angled bracket to put the master cylinder at the right angle and mount higher up on the pedal to give more pressure, which I had made for mine, plus a smaller diameter cylinder for higher pressure. (if you look at the 4th gen master cylinder, the whole assembly actually mounts at an angle like this)

Total cost including their labour for the install and work, the initial gearbox kit, propshaft shortening, pedal assembly was a bit over £3k from memory...
Roadcraft have brand new TKO 600's in stock for around £1700, but you might find one cheaper here from another supplier, or get a 2nd hand one from US for less. So if you add all the bits it's still gonna be £2.5k +..
Once you've got a T10 installed it will be less as you won't have the actual manual conversion cost I guess.

Author:	The Seer [Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
I'm toying with the idea of ditching my TH350 in place of TKO600. Has anybody done this so far? If so how much did it cost and what's involved? Thanks

Author:	78 Camaro [Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
ChevyStu has a TKO in his 2nd gen... can't remember if upgraded from a previous manual or an auto but i'm sure he can chime in either way. I'm doing a swap at some stage this year from a TH350 to a Borg Warner Super T10. I've got all the bits n bobs i.e pedals, z bar, linkages etc. Got all of that from NPD. The tranny's tend to go for about 500 - 1500 and not sure about labour. Couple of other considerations might be the transmission bar mount, may need moving back / modified and also the axle shaft may need to be a different length, depending on if the transmission has moved backwards. Hope that helps a bit!

Author:	The Seer [Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
Quote: ChevyStu has a TKO in his 2nd gen... can't remember if upgraded from a previous manual or an auto but i'm sure he can chime in either way. I'm doing a swap at some stage this year from a TH350 to a Borg Warner Super T10. I've got all the bits n bobs i.e pedals, z bar, linkages etc. Got all of that from NPD. The tranny's tend to go for about 500 - 1500 and not sure about labour. Couple of other considerations might be the transmission bar mount, may need moving back / modified and also the axle shaft may need to be a different length, depending on if the transmission has moved backwards. Hope that helps a bit! Thanks for the info there It appears the Super T 10 is built pretty well with durability and made to last from what I've just read. The price is very good considering the torque it'll cope with and compared to the more expensive second hand T56's or TKO600's. However unless you plan to use, or already have a final drive of less than 3.90 it's gonna make the engine buzz a bit. According to http://www.auto-ware.com/techref/transratios.htm fourth is 1.00, the same as my TH350. I use a 3.90 and at 70-80 mph the revs are pretty high and detracts from the driving experience, for me anyway, plus the fuel consumption is pretty poor. I do like the differences between the gears in the Super T10, a close ratio gear box for sure

Author:	Twistedsanity [Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
Not sure if it's any use but I'll have an updated clutch cover (think its from an lt4 but sold by slp as an uprated for an lt1) , a couple of clutch plates, one is a puck style which in the words of the guy I got it from " grips like a gorilla" and a standard one, also a manual flywheel from my LT1, no idea what else they fit but will be surplus to requirements very soon

Author:	chevy-stu [Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
hello.... yes, I did have a TH350 auto, and after getting it and converter rebuilt once, and then it needing doing again within a year I decided to go manual, as I was into driving it round corners more than drag racing so it was converted to a TKO about 5 years ago. You'll need the pedal bar assembly as you know, crossmember needs replacing or modding (mine just a has a centre section cut and moved back/reversed to fit the TKO mount), clutch assembly and flywheel. Mines hydraulic so also needed slave and master cylinders and pipework plus link rod from pedal to master cylinder. The transmission tunnel wil need cutting/enlarging, and the console changing or modifying, plus a suitable set back shifter or it'll hit the dash when you change gear. Also the propshaft will need shortening as the TKO is a bit longer. Most of the work was done initially by Alders Automatics, who may know their stuff about auto boxes, but frankly did a bit of a rubbish job on mine as they'd never done it before and didn't admit they didn't have a clue at the time... most issues have been sorted now. They used a TKO500 (same as 600, but slightly different ratios, and torque rating) as they got a Cobra TKO kit from Southern Roadcraft (http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk) as that's what they had in stock. There were a few issues with this particular kit as it was designed for a Ford engine so had a Ford 10 spline input shaft, but with a Chevy bellhousing so it would fit my engine, hence my car now uses a Chevy pressure plate but a Ford disc. Also they fitted the master cylinder flush to the bulkhead so the pressure angle to the pedal was all wrong, so it never worked properly, and the standard Sachs clutch could not take any power and slipped immediately as did the next 'uprated' replacement. (4 clutches later I'm now using McLeod RST twin plate which cope fine) Also they cut the tunnel hole too small so the gearbox used to hit the body on acceleration. If you go hydraulic you need an angled bracket to put the master cylinder at the right angle and mount higher up on the pedal to give more pressure, which I had made for mine, plus a smaller diameter cylinder for higher pressure. (if you look at the 4th gen master cylinder, the whole assembly actually mounts at an angle like this) Total cost including their labour for the install and work, the initial gearbox kit, propshaft shortening, pedal assembly was a bit over £3k from memory... Roadcraft have brand new TKO 600's in stock for around £1700, but you might find one cheaper here from another supplier, or get a 2nd hand one from US for less. So if you add all the bits it's still gonna be £2.5k +.. Once you've got a T10 installed it will be less as you won't have the actual manual conversion cost I guess.

The Camaro Club (UK) http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/

Swapping TH350 for TKO600...? http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4338	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Twistedsanity [Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
If you do decide to go ahead just remembered I have a complete slave/master cylinder assy with the rod that attaches to the pedal from a 4th gen in addition to the parts I listed above

Author:	The Seer [Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
Quote: hello.... yes, I did have a TH350 auto, and after getting it and converter rebuilt once, and then it needing doing again within a year I decided to go manual, as I was into driving it round corners more than drag racing so it was converted to a TKO about 5 years ago. You'll need the pedal bar assembly as you know, crossmember needs replacing or modding (mine just a has a centre section cut and moved back/reversed to fit the TKO mount), clutch assembly and flywheel. Mines hydraulic so also needed slave and master cylinders and pipework plus link rod from pedal to master cylinder. The transmission tunnel wil need cutting/enlarging, and the console changing or modifying, plus a suitable set back shifter or it'll hit the dash when you change gear. Also the propshaft will need shortening as the TKO is a bit longer. Most of the work was done initially by Alders Automatics, who may know their stuff about auto boxes, but frankly did a bit of a rubbish job on mine as they'd never done it before and didn't admit they didn't have a clue at the time... most issues have been sorted now. They used a TKO500 (same as 600, but slightly different ratios, and torque rating) as they got a Cobra TKO kit from Southern Roadcraft (http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk) as that's what they had in stock. There were a few issues with this particular kit as it was designed for a Ford engine so had a Ford 10 spline input shaft, but with a Chevy bellhousing so it would fit my engine, hence my car now uses a Chevy pressure plate but a Ford disc. Also they fitted the master cylinder flush to the bulkhead so the pressure angle to the pedal was all wrong, so it never worked properly, and the standard Sachs clutch could not take any power and slipped immediately as did the next 'uprated' replacement. (4 clutches later I'm now using McLeod RST twin plate which cope fine) Also they cut the tunnel hole too small so the gearbox used to hit the body on acceleration. If you go hydraulic you need an angled bracket to put the master cylinder at the right angle and mount higher up on the pedal to give more pressure, which I had made for mine, plus a smaller diameter cylinder for higher pressure. (if you look at the 4th gen master cylinder, the whole assembly actually mounts at an angle like this) Total cost including their labour for the install and work, the initial gearbox kit, propshaft shortening, pedal assembly was a bit over £3k from memory... Roadcraft have brand new TKO 600's in stock for around £1700, but you might find one cheaper here from another supplier, or get a 2nd hand one from US for less. So if you add all the bits it's still gonna be £2.5k +.. Once you've got a T10 installed it will be less as you won't have the actual manual conversion cost I guess. Many thanks for the information Sorry to hear about the initial problems. Must of been a real headache and extremely frustrating! Four clutches were destroyed, and this is because of the mounting position of the master cylinder? Do you know exactly how much the transmission tunnel is required to be widened? The reason I ask is that I'm restoring/customising the interior at present. I'm about to purchase a replacement carpet and my concern is that it won't fit correctly if I'm to follow this route? Also, will I need to ditch my centre console in favour of one specific to a manual car?

Author:	78 Camaro [Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
2x t5's for sale £475 each http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff- ... oxs-317250

Author:	The Seer [Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
Quote: 2x t5's for sale £475 each http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff- ... oxs-317250 Thanks for the link If a T5 was strong enough I'd go with one of them, alas they're only rated to circa 350 lbs ft. My ZZ4 is already making around 400 lbs ft. Real shame, since they're the right price for certain!

Author:	chevy-stu [Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swapping TH350 for TKO600...?
Quote: Many thanks for the information Sorry to hear about the initial problems. Must of been a real headache and extremely frustrating! Four clutches were destroyed, and this is because of the mounting position of the master cylinder? Do you know exactly how much the transmission tunnel is required to be widened? The reason I ask is that I'm restoring/customising the interior at present. I'm about to purchase a replacement carpet and my concern is that it won't fit correctly if I'm to follow this route? Also, will I need to ditch my centre console in favour of one specific to a manual car? Tunnel doesn't need to be widened with a Tremec as they're actually quite small, and lighter by about 30lb than a TH350 (which all helps). Only actual mod is to open up the hole for the shifter, but you'll need to get a set back shifter or it will hit the dash. The console will fit, but the auto hole will be too large, so i solved it with a BMW 540 gator and a little blanking plate to fill the gap.. I'm not sure if a proper manual console will work better, and they're very hard to find.. I actually would one day like to make a custom console with the right size shifter hole with a couple of extra gauges/switches, cup holders, charger socket etc... Quote: Quote: 2x t5's for sale £475 each http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff- ... oxs-317250 Thanks for the link If a T5 was strong enough I'd go with one of them, alas they're only rated to circa 350 lbs ft. My ZZ4 is already making around 400 lbs ft. Real shame, since they're the right price for certain! I think T5's can be built up pretty strong for not crazy money. Maybe speak to some one like http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/ they rebuilt mine for a good price when 1st gear failed.

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