The Camaro Club (UK)

So I'm starting to give my engine build some thought.

Problem I've got is as follows, I've never driven my car, it was a non runner when I bought it and I've kinda never driven an American car either!

I've got a 3.5 V8 Hilux which I built, so I'm no stranger to V8's.

Question is as follows, how much is enough (and yes I know enough is never quite enough!).

What I mean is, how much HP & TQ do you have to haul around your 2nd gen? I'm not after a magic formula, just need to know to which ball park. I have a useable 350 block and rotating assembly, but will be building from the cam up on a blank canvas.

Lets hear what your running...

Thanks

Good question, i guess it all comes down to what you want to do with it.

A decision tree would be difficult to illustrate here, so i guess the starting point to remember is, if you rebuild it so it's like new from the factory, you will be able to do a standing burnout which is usually enough for a lot of people

From there if you just work on the airflow in terms of headers / intake etc you should be breaking past 200hp & torque (unless your lucky and have a pre 70's oil crisis engine and then you're looking at 300), which for a street application is good fun and a good sound. For me - this is enough. I want it to sound nice, run smooth (not restricted etc) and be able to pull away whenever i need to and have fun at a track / strip without worrying about overstressing the engine / components.

From there i guess you would decide what you want - drag racing, pro touring, road & track etc.

Procharmo on here is the extreme - he has a twin procharged pushing up in the region of nearly 2000hp from what i remember. sounds amazing and there's no doubt he won't have to worry about what pulls up to him at the lights.

From most converstations i 've had and heard, 500 tends to be the point where it turns into something that's more of a targetted setup, i.e taking part in competitive racing in some form. Crossing that line you're looking at the power moving intot he structure of the car, so subframe connectors, rollcages, upgraded brakes, rear axles etc all come into the picture to help make that power useful. I think there's a lot of power out there that is lost because the cars aren't setup for laying it down. For me 500 has always been a magic number limit. anything above 300 means you dont have to worry about it not doing the job and at 500 you'll need to start thinking more about why you are doing it.

Hope my thoughts are of some use, just things i have heard and read about and how i see things at the moment. could be wrong and totally off track, but hope it's useful in some way!

Cheers,

Ray

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If you do your driving on the street like me the thing to concentrate on is torque and decent mid-range HP
An early 2nd gen 350 SS would make 300 HP and more torque than a Z28. The SS is the more flexible power plant and the Z28 really only has an advantage at high rpm .
These days with better heads and cam profiles you can build a good 400 hp engine that is streetable and will run on pump gas without octane booster.
Keep in mind the higher the state of tune the fussier the motor will be and might be a bitch to live with if you go too far.
For road use don't go for a cam more radical than an Edelbrock RPM ,keep the carb on the small side [650 cfm ,700 max ]. Good inlet manifold and headers matched to a 21/2 inch exhaust with good quality turbo mufflers and linked x pipe---should get you in the right direction and not cost the earth !

I think way to do (from having done it wrong twice myself now.... ) would be to work out what you want from the car, and then your budget and then choose the best options from there.

It's easy to build the wrong kind of engine for the task, and then forget to sort the rest of the car to match....

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“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”

Never enough, you just have to moderate your use of the right foot

But seriously, having built a supercharged 300bhp, 525kg kit car it was great having enough power to keep up with superbikes. However it was a major handful and you had to really have your wits about you when driving it.

The only real 2 considerations for me is reliability and driveability on the street. Money isn't always that much of a problem unless you really want to buy all new parts or are in a hurry. As quite often you can pick up good secondhand parts at a fraction of the price of new if you are patient.

Personally in a car the weight of the stock Camaro I would be looking, and eventually will be aiming for, somewhere around 350bhp for a street car.

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My '80 progress thread - hugger orange! Now with LQ9 power - forged pistons, LS2 rods, 236/242, .621/.612, flowed and milled 317 heads. MS3X

4L80e, 12 bolt, 4.11, Moroso brute strength posi, steel shafts.

Subframe connectors, g-braces, solid body bushes, carbon hood and front bumper, custom door cards, Autometer gauges.

This is all great knowledge, and I really appreciate everyones honesty.

It sounds as though I need to be aiming somewhere between 250 and 500HP, which seems to be the top end for the street.

I have two builds in mind based around Edelbrock's line of power packages, I can quite easily recreate their 330HP/409TQ package based around E-Street heads, or their 410HP/408Tq based around the Performer RPM heads (their 'quoted' figures).

I know that torque will be more important to me than top end and I want something which is driveable around town. The E-Street package would return good figures but I'm also concious that by going E-Street any future cam changes would be limited due to valve lift limits associated with these heads.

If you are planning to spend the bucks on an Edelbrock motor, might I suggest the GM Performance parts ZZ383 motor instead? It's comparable in price to the Edelbrock offering (probably less), with a 1-year warranty and 425 HP/449 lf-ft torque on pump gas. I know several people who have used this motor. It's bullet-proof and very streetable. The specs are baseline and with a different cam/ intake & headers, you are looking at close to 475hp. The General does it right (that's why you guys like our cars). Check this engine out at the links below. You can build this motor (or better) with parts found on this site.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/home.jsp

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Engin ... &engCat=sb

Dana

These cam experts--who knew? Check out Comp Cams THUMPR and Lunati VOODOO series for street/ strip. Crower, Iskanderian and Crane also have excellent cams. The Edelbrock stuff is generic and won't give you the punch you really want--but are still a far sight better than stock. I know Edelbrock is probably a well-recognized brand over there (UK) but it's far from top-of-the-line. Look at these others--please.

http://cranecams.com/

http://www.crower.com/

http://www.lunatipower.com/

http://www.iskycams.com/

http://www.compcams.com/

Dana

I heard about procharmer's car. For a realistic comparison, I watched some guy (who's name I can't pronounce) from the Netherlands a while back with a 2200 HP, turbocharged Gen-III Firebird. He was flat-out SMOKED (and embarrassed) on the track at Vegas by multiple cars with engines ranging from 450-800 HP that were engineered to TURN (and stop), not just go fast in a straight line. This guy spent more time off the track than on it, because he simply had too much power and couldn't keep the car hooked up. I sincerely doubt if that much HP can be managed on the street. You have to spend money on other stuff besides the motor, guys... FYI, NASCAR Nextel Cup cars average between 750 to 850 hp (depending on resrictor plate requirements). Unrestricted, these cars can run over 250 mph. RPM range is upwards of 9,500 RPM for over 500 miles. Don't try this with a 2000 hp turbo motor...the mess would be hard to clean up.