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MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
http://classiccamaroclub.mfatw.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4191		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  arjk [Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
:wall:

Well the Mini front lights are on order. My mechanic has just been over and explained why the rears have also failed!

On the back there is a red and a white glass on each side. The white one is wired to the reversing lights.

The red one is used for stop, tail, and indicator. There are two power feeds - one for stop and one tail. We assume that the indicator switch therefore just turns the tail light feed on and off.

Now in theory it is possible to do away with the reversing lights and use them as an independent indicator - using amber bulbs. However that will mean cutting in to an expensive loom and running new cables from the front of the car.

Before I embark on this non too satisfactory route, does anyone have any other ideas?

Cheers,

Ash
Author:  78 Camaro [Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Oh dear :( it's ok though, we'll get you through it :thumbup:

Sportsroof on here is an MOT tester and has a lot of experience with American Cars so he's an excellent point of reference.

For reversing lights, it is NOT a legal requirement to have them. My 3rd gen doesn't have reverse lights, instead, it has amber bulb indicators in there (though, i would prefer to have reversing lights also - have done this on the 2nd gen Camaro).

So:
Quote:
Now in theory it is possible to do away with the reversing lights and use them as an independent indicator - using amber bulbs
Yes, this is definitely a possibility.

Can you remind me what year your car is? I will look at a wiring diagram (if you have one already, can you share the pics?) and i'll look at how you can do it, with minimal, if any modification.

The current system is wired up to activate the stop light when the indicator is active. I don't know why the U.S have them wired this way - when out in the states i saw this on all the cars and it's pretty confusing to see a car braking and indicating with the same light. Let me know...
Author:  78 Camaro [Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Just saw your profile says it's a '68... i'll start looking...
Author:  chevy-stu [Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
My 77' has the reversing lights rewired with amber bulbs... No reversing lights is a bit of pain, but not too bothered.. yes, the loom needs to be fiddled with..
It's either that or add ugly extra light units under bumper... :thumbdown:
Author:  arjk [Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Hello all,

I don't need reversing lights - so these can be used with amber bulbs.

The car was wired as part of the Wheeler Dealers TV programme - a new bespoke loom which was expensive and I assume maybe not stock? Having said that, the two wires to the bulb holder operating three lighting operations sounds to be standard American from the above Posts. It's strange that they didn't cop onto these MOT irregularities when they did the wiring, but there you go...

I would hate having another set of lights below the bumper as it's a really nice car, so any loom advice would be much appreciated. But it would be too much to hope for the colours to be as original!

Cheers,

Ash
Author:  78 Camaro [Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Those dodgey wheeler dealers eh :lol:

Ye the MOT thing is always interesting, as sportsroof was saying, the rules are there - you have testers that abide to them and others that don't. I've seen even modern U.S cars (2010 Mustangs) with red indicator lights driving around over here. There is a historic allowance in that cars before a certain year can 'break' the current regulations but i think that's cars prior to the 60's, to help in preserving the historic appearance. For example, they can have the old style license plates too.

Anyway back to your car.

The tail (running) lights all run off of the brown wire. Even the front running lights will have a brown colour wire. This is ok as is. The Dark Green (right hand side) and Dark Blue (left hand side) wires are the ones that carry the Stop and the Indicator signal. In it's simplest form - run a new wire from the brake switch (attached to the brake pedal) all the way back to the Stop Tail bulb holder, to replace the Dark Green and Dark Blue on each side. Take the wire you just took off the bulb holder and use it to replace the light green wire on the reverse light (light green carries the reverse light signal). Do this for each side. In theory that's it, however, the signal for the indicator and brake merge at some point and i'm trying to work out where this happens. Wiring diagrams i've found so far a bit rubbish.

Hope that's made sense so far, definitely don't want you having extra lights stuck on the car!
Author:  arjk [Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Lol, thanks Big Block.

The car is great - but I am having to sort out a number of issues which stem from the fact that it was somebody else's project before Ed got his orange hands dirty :clap:

The upper wishbone bolts were loose (only found out after I had shelled out for new bushes which weren't needed) and the car is a smoker because, I believe, the valve stem seals are knackered. It's a new crate engine but took at least 5 years to build the car in the California desert - presumably drying them out over time.

I'll show you my Mechanic your comments - he's doing the MOT work so had may as well run some wires while it is in a dry workshop....
Author:  78 Camaro [Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
I thought they had got everything sorted and tidy for you, but i guess as you say, picking up someone else's project can leave all sorts of gremlins about that take a while to find and figure out.

I've got to do the valve stem seals on the 3rd gen too at some point. Already got the parts in and in a way, it's surprisingly that they last so long, considering the heat and chemicals that they are exposed to. They are quite small rubbery type things that you wouldn't think could stand up to much.

Here's the clearest diagram i could find, nice and high res but still a bit awkward to read. Takes a while to figure out what's supposed to be going on and not all of the components appear to be shown. You should find the stop light quite easy to figure out - close switch to activate circuit and it runs straight to the back light housing. Still trying to figure out how the brake light and flasher signal meet and how that can be separated without rewiring the whole car. I hope that they used an after market replacement loom - i've replaced the loom front and back on the 2nd gen and it was spot on. There are after market ones that you get that are generic and that might very different to the factory wiring diagram. Will keep you updated if i can figure it out.

Cheers!

Ray

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/AS/AS ... amfull.jpg
Author:  78 Camaro [Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
Getting there but still slightly baffled by bass ackward wiring they use on cars :crazy:

This may help too:

http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/turn-signals.html
Author:  3rdGenmalc [Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail on REAR lights now .....
I had a 1978 Camaro when I lived in Germany, that had amber turn signals not red.
Apparently there is a European tail light set up for these cars as they were sold by dealers in France and Germany.
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